The State of Our Union [And the fight to keep it]
A marriage podcast designed to encourage reconnection, through open dialogue about the topics that challenges most marriages.
The State of Our Union [And the fight to keep it]
Marriage is a Classroom for Growth | Katya Defensor
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Katya shared the intersection of marriage, faith and entrepreneurship, and the lessons she learned from it all. She believes marriage is a classroom for life lessons; it’s important for our faith, communication, and aligning with God's purpose. In this episode, Katya shares her journey of balancing it all, and the challenges. Emphasizing the importance of community, self-awareness, and authentic communication for women seeking fulfillment and growth.
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Connect with Katya:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/katyadefensor
Website: www.empwrd.io
Email: katherine@empwrd.io
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Thanks for tuning in! If today’s EP resonated with you, subscribe, like, and share it with someone who needs it. Connect with me on all platforms @karenwillcoach - and if you are ready to go deeper, join the community and continue the conversation inside my Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/loveandconflict" Until next time, let’s continue to fight for our union.
Hello everyone, and once again, welcome to another episode of the State of Our Union and the Fight to Keep It. I am your host, Karen Williams. I am a relationship coach, author, speaker, mom, grandma, and all the things. So today, my amazing guest is Katya, and I am gonna allow her to introduce herself in just a few moments. But again, you you for those of you that's just joining us for the first time this season of our podcast, we're speaking directly to that young wife who for some reason thinks she thinks, hey, this is, you know, my marriage is what it is, but I don't want it to be what it is anymore. I want it to move forward. I feel a little stuck. This conversation is for you. So I'm gonna throw it over here to Katya. I'm gonna allow you to just hey, jump right in, introduce yourself, share as much as you want or as little as you want.
SPEAKER_04Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I am so happy to be here and happy to have this conversation. I think it's so fitting too, because in just the season of life, I think marriage is just one of those that um God uses as a classroom. I call it a classroom, and I'll talk about that in a little bit more here. I believe that marriage, motherhood, entrepreneurship, those are all classrooms that God provides in your life, and each one of those classrooms are decided to teach you a lesson. So I'm so excited, and I'm so congratulations on putting a podcast like this together because it's such a needed topic in this space.
SPEAKER_00Yes, absolutely. Um, and we know marriage in in general is you know, it's under attack. I I I mean, we hear that all the time, but I really truly believe that because of the number of divorces, you know, I don't, I honestly don't think people are preparing enough at the beginning, like at the front end, we're so excited about the wedding itself. So we lose focus and we don't prepare as well for the marriage itself. And so these are the spaces that I think will, you know, at least um, you know, provide some type of awareness, you know, or at least challenge people to have that conversation with their partner, with their spouses, or, you know, even with your um, you know, I say marriage mentor. If you don't have a marriage mentor, you need to get one. You know, so even around uh in those spaces. So we're gonna jump right in. We're gonna kick it off with um, you know, tell us a little bit about you started saying the that intersection between um entrepreneurship, motherhood, and um, you know, marriage, all of that somehow it becomes that classroom for us. Tell us a little bit about that and what are some of the things that you're learning or have learned.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So I don't think I introduced myself. I'm Katya Defensor. I'm I went right in to the lesson. But my name is Katya Defensor. I'm the founder of Empowered. But basically, I am an entrepreneur. I work from home. I have three little ones. I have a three-year-old, a six-year-old, and an 11-year-old. And, you know, a lot of times society tells us that it's almost impossible to run a business with such a schedule. Um, but I think of it the opposite. Whereas I genuinely believe that God didn't design business for it to consume our lives. I genuinely believe that business is meant for you to be able to use it to grow yourself, your family, and to take care of your family and your community. That's what it's meant for, and it's not meant for you to be a slave of it. So I learned the hard way, and it took me a few years to learn it, that you need to be able to design your business to fit your lifestyle and not the other way around. Yeah. I think it's so great what you said that you know, well, it's not great, but you're saying how it affects a society right now. There's a lot of like divorce and just like broken marriages and all that stuff, which is true because you have to imagine, like before, now there was no way to compare what's going on in other people's marriage, right? Right. Unlike now, everybody just posts all sorts of content and of um kind of like a peek into people's marriages, right? But here's the thing those are very curated. We don't really know what's going on in their marriage. I know for a fact that I, you know, that's one of my guilty pleasures too, is like sometimes I I like watching, you know, influencer couples because I think they're cute and what they do and it's fun and it's, you know, but then um fast forward a few years, they've broken up, they've separated, right? And I'm like thinking to myself, what? You guys seem like you had it all figured out. But here's the secret, right? Nobody has a perfect marriage. Nobody even the person, the very person you're looking up to, and you're like, oh my gosh, they have a perfect marriage. They don't. They just showcase whatever it is that they want to see for you to see online. Yeah, right. Absolutely. I mean, there's different ways marriages navigate their marriages that work for them, but it is a work.
SPEAKER_01It's work.
SPEAKER_04It is and for and for it to be shown online that it's just this beautiful thing that always happens and always agrees and always just flows. I think if you go into marriage with that in mind, yeah, there's gonna be so many days that you will be disappointed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, more days than more days than one. I am one of my uh one of my previous guests, she one of the points that she made, uh, my my friend Dr. Ebony Bell, she made a point that uh one of the one of the things that her and her husband had to came to, had to come to was that they had to write their own story. And it is so important that we recognize the need for you and I to step into our marriage relationship with the right, you know, with the pen and paper, that blank slate, and say, hey, honey, this is the life that we want. This is the relationship that we that we wanna, you know, if nothing else, uh, that legacy for our kids because we are their first teachers. They learn relationship dynamic from us, right? And I think a lot of times because we, I know for me, and and I that's always the you're gonna always know, I speak from my own experiences, right? And my husband and I, we did not have an example for our marriage relationship. We went in our into our marriage life, we just didn't want to do the things in our failed relationship because we were both divorced, right? Um, and I've always been pretty candid about that. Um, we've been this year, we celebrate our 34th wedding anniversary. Congratulations. 34 years, thank you. And the the thing that we went in with was we just didn't want to do the things that we that failed our marriages before. But we didn't know what actually to do, right? So we kind of, you know, just kind of stumbled along when, you know, we recognized patterns. We're like, okay, well, we don't want to do that because that messed up our marriage last time. And so it, like you said, the that that intersection of um, you know, entrepreneurship, motherhood, and um and marriage. But I want to throw that other dynamic in there. And I know you're gonna talk a little bit about this, our relationship with Christ. Because if we if I if we didn't have that, you know, and and I'm not, I'm again, I'm here because the way, the way God moved in our lives is what brought us to this point, right? So I can't give an account for anybody else's relationship. I just know that's what worked for us. And so we had to have um that foundation, you know, to build on. We we had to have that level of authority or that um, I don't know how what you want to call it, but that standard to, you know, by which to live on. So tell me a little or tell the audience a little bit about the role that, you know, you know, whether it's the church, the word of God, Jesus, your relationship, you know, you guys' relationship with Christ, how does how has that influenced your marriage? And so share a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um, you know, I feel like in the beginning of our marriage, I didn't have expectations. I didn't have expectations. I think people, I I mean, I didn't, right? Like you said, I could only speak about myself. I came in, I didn't really have expectations or of list of like, I want this, this, and this, and this. Because growing up, my dad died when I was two, when I was two, right? I had a stepdad for a few years in my life, but I didn't really have like, oh my gosh, like that's a perfect, that's a good marriage. Like I like how they are. I didn't have that, right? I had a mom who's a strong woman, and that's what I had. I had uncles and you know, aunts, and they were, but I didn't really have one that I'm like, oh my gosh, like their marriage is really good, right? There wasn't anything like that. So marriage to me was a discovery, right? It was a discovery of a good word. That's a good word. That's a good word. You know? Um, and then um obviously when you get married, you know, there's a lot of like um, you're now one, right? You have to start living together, you start building a life together, and there was a lot of discovery there too. I'm like, wait, what? And then obviously my husband, he has his own expectation of what marriage is. Maybe he had a list, right? I I sure didn't. But I'm like, oh, okay. So at first in the beginning, I was a very, I would say I was um living being a wife according to what he thinks a wife should be. Right, okay. Because I didn't have any set standards for myself. Like I didn't have any, so I'm like, oh, so he says that's what a wife should be. I should be that kind of wife, you know what I mean? So he expected like a hot meal, like a cooking and all that. That is not me. That's not naturally me. So uh so I was But you know, you know, we rise to location. Okay, we rise to location, we start, you know, we we cook, we, you know, we start doing the thing, right? So but then because of all this, and then years into this, right, we also navigate the fact that I like my own time. Like I like being my I enjoy being by myself. I enjoy myself. You know what I mean? Like I I'm okay with being by myself. And he's more of like quality time and being together, doing everything together, doing everything as a team. And to me, I'm not all about that. So there was learning with that too, right? And then there was just years of this of learning each other, right? And the way we we do life. So there was never in the beginning, there wasn't a time where we were like, Oh, we have to, I want this way, I want this. It wasn't like that. We were learning each other's yes, how we were, right? But throughout all this, and in the beginning of our marriage, Jesus wasn't the foundation of our marriage. He didn't come up until later. And I think, and I and I grew up Christian, I grew up in a Christian home. Church was always very big. We always went to Sunday school. Uh and you know, being part, being Christian was was very big in our family.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, so there was a season in our marriage where it they were just going through it. We were just going through it, right? Personally, I was just going through it, he was just going through it, and it just everything was just in shambles. And I remember we were in at this, um, we were in Corona and there was this church there. And that's where I found that church. To this day, it's still my home church. But I found that church and I just like there's this hunger to just be in the word. Just every time I call it, I would like, I would be in tears. Because there's just this, it's not that I was like, not that I was just, and I don't cry easily, but it was just this, you know how like when when you feel when the Holy Spirit is there with you, yeah, it just brings tears to your eyes. You just know God's presence is there. So I remember every time I go to that church, I would just be fumbling and I would be like, I would leave and I was like, oh, that felt good. So I would just go back. So it was around that time that I feel like God was really refining me as a person, right? But I say all that to say this. There's obviously there's so much more that happened because this was a few years, this was like maybe eight years ago. I say that to say this. There's gonna be seasons in your life that's gonna test you and your marriage and you as a person, and you and your spouse in itself, right? Um but all of those I feel like God uses to refine you as a person, right? Yeah, there is this, there's this Bible verse in Proverbs. I think it's Proverbs 423. It says, um, above all things, guard your heart because with all diligence, yeah, all things. Yeah. So that's why you have to be so protective of what's in your heart, what you consume. Because how you act, how you because when you're being indo, when you're being when there's pressure around you, when you're being tested, when you're being refined, it's like you're being smushed, right? It's like how it feels, you're being smushed. If you were to like an orange, let's think I had an orange here, and I were to smush that orange, what's gonna come out? Yeah, orange juice, right? Yes. Orange juice already inside of it. So same thing as a as a person, right? When pressures, when trials, when all those things are being used to refine you as a per a person, the way I see it is that God is like squeezing all the bad stuff and all the goods and just refining you. Yes, what's gonna come out in your heart is gonna come out. If there's bitterness, if there is um resentment, if there is jealousy, that's gonna come out. Right. When there is love and there is uh grace and there's empathy, that's gonna come out, right? And that's how I feel like God just really used my marriage because growing up, I didn't like I said, I didn't grow up with a dad figure. I did have a stepdad, but I didn't have a uh a bad childhood. Like I really had a good job. My mom did an amazing job to make us not feel like we lack or we didn't we were missing something. Like she had a really good support system, she herself was like really good, so we there was no like nothing missing. So I feel like I wouldn't have the relationship I have now with Jesus if it wasn't for my marriage, if it wasn't for the seasons where I was really tested. Yes, because that was the only thing that I could gravitate to or like hold on to. Yeah. I feel like those are the only times that you could really test your faith is when you're put in situations where that's all you got, girl. Yes, yes, that's a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_00That's a hundred percent. You can say you have faith all day long. If it's not, if it's never been tested, do we how do we know that we have faith?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know that actually brings up a good story. Uh Pete was Peter when God tells him or Jesus tells him, Hey, come out the water when there's a storm. And like, hey, come out the water, come come over here. So he steps out the water, right? That's already faith by stepping out, right? But then he doesn't just ask him to stand in the water, he tells him, come walk. Walk. That's faith in practice, right? Because you're not just standing there, you're now you gotta walk in faith, right? Exactly. Like, I feel like the all the trials that comes through is just a way of God, just like, okay, let me refine you. There's something that you need to learn, there's something that there's a lesson to be learned. And I I genuinely believe that it's all in preparation for what's ahead, because only He knows what's ahead. What we need to be prepared for.
SPEAKER_00So I love the analogy that you gave about the orange juice, because somehow we think that our reactions and our behaviors is due to our spouse's behavior. Well, look what you made me do. Uh had it not been for you, and we have the tendency to say, Oh, I want that one person who's gonna bring out the best in me. And to a certain extent, you do. You want somebody, you you want to marry someone that is going to help you grow in the things that God has uh ordained you to walk in. That's that's that's set. But when we look at our partner and we say things like, you're bringing out the worst in me, it's like, no, our marriage is squeezing out what's already in you. So the our responses, our reactions, our behaviors, oh my God, girl, that's your orange juice coming out of your orange. That is your orange juice. I love that. And because I always I was um I always liken it to a fruit tree because I said, hey, I cannot go to an apple tree and expect oranges, you know, because whatever, whatever type of tree you are, that's the fruit that you're gonna bear. But I like that juice one. I I like I love I love that juice one. But um I wanted to kind of um you know, kind of go back to the the social media curated look of marriage. And we have the tendency to um, in especially in like um urban social media, we have the tendency to look at people like um, you know, Russell and um and Sierra. Um, we, you know, we and again, there's several you know, several other couples. But we have no idea what goes on behind um closed doors. And what I will also venture to say is when we decide that we want to follow after someone or lean into somebody else's marriage and say, hey, that's the example that I'm looking at, you gotta be willing to say, am I am I willing to do what they're doing to maintain the marriage that they have? Am I willing to to submit as a wife and uh as a husband are you know are they willing to to lead in the way that um God is calling them to lead? And uh we have a tendency, and I know this because I've had this conversation with women. Well, I am not submitting until he does this and this. Well, there's nowhere in the Bible where it says we submit only when they're leading well. That's right. And so how do we avoid that? We go back to the very beginning and say, hey, is this really my person? Do we have the same belief system? Are we on the same level when it comes to um, you know, how God, uh what God's definition of a marriage should look like? You know, is it aligned with God's word? It is is it aligned with the with my uh my fundamental beliefs, my value system? Uh, you know, are we on the same page when it comes to those major things? You know, how we raise kids, how we handle money, you know, which uh who we're gonna worship and how are we gonna worship and where we're gonna worship, you know, all of those different um aspects, you know, are am I going into the marriage with my definition of what a wife or a husband should look like based on how I was raised, based on my family of origin. You know, and so those conversations got to have uh or got to have have to happen before we're saying I do. So, all right, we said I do, and we're in it now, we're we're in it now. Where do we go from here? There's a lot of um, there's a lot of unlearning that needs to take place, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, so what would you say to um, you know, as far as uh you said you didn't have any expectations, but what are some of the the roles and uh marriage realities that you would speak to, especially in the area of um say partnership or you know, communication, support, those, you know, those main um, you know, what I said, those main um strong points you know uh in in marriage.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So that's a loaded question.
SPEAKER_04No, I I got I got you. Uh so yeah, I think as our marriage evolved, I started I may not have got I may not have went in the marriage with expectations. However, as our marriage evolved, the ex the standard that I had for myself came up.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04There's a difference, right? Yes. Expectation is like you're aware that this is what you want, but the standard is just that level of standard you have within yourself that's already in your core, that when it's being tested, it bubbles up. You're like, wait, nope, wait, nope. Right? So that's how it happened for me, at least, is that as we evolved in our marriage and we were noticing things, I started noticing things that are like, hmm, I don't want it like that. I that's not what I want. That's not so and like let me give you an example. My my husband, he is he com he uh processes things loudly. Okay I process things internally. So if we're having a discussion about a topic, right? And He's processing it while talking. I'm processing it internally quietly. Right. I'm trying to process it. And if it's making me upset, then he since because he's processing loudly, he's gonna say something that he didn't think through.
SPEAKER_01Right, right, right.
SPEAKER_04Right? And then I'm gonna so now internally I haven't even processed the first thing that we were discussing. Now I have another thing that I need to process.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So we needed to be like, wait, I needed, I needed to learn for me at least to be able to articulate what it is that I was feeling. Because before I was very good at just like, I'm just gonna like, whatever. I'm not gonna deal with it. I'm just gonna be quiet. I'm just gonna process it. You know what I mean? Like, and I like that was just me being stubborn and didn't want to communicate. And I felt like he just needs to figure it out. You just need to figure out what I want, right? And you know, and I'm very guilty of that, especially in the beginning. Because I stay very like, I would just stay quiet. You just know that I've changed, so you know I'm mad about something, but you're not sure what I'm mad about. Um we've never done that. So there's a there's like that in a marriage because here's the thing like communication, like I think there's this misconception that communication is just talking.
SPEAKER_00Right, right.
SPEAKER_04Communication is not just talking, it's also listening, it's understanding, it's having empathy towards the other person, seeing things from their perspective.
SPEAKER_00And notice how I this is all and and another thing, hearing the emotion that comes behind what's being said.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yes. Yeah, but but we were but there's this misconception that communication is just being able to say and talk. But it's not because if we were just to talk and both of us are talking, nothing is gonna get resolved. Right. And and I I think that's one of the things that um I was I so I said I didn't have association, but my standards start bubbling up and saying things like, okay, well, you know what? I genuinely like my alone time. So when I'm working on something, especially when I'm zoned in, I don't want to be bothered. I because it takes me so much to be able to focus on. So he knows that now. He knows that once I'm I'm in my zone, I have headphones on, he knows not to bother me, not to like because I get easily, if we get interrupted, at least for me, it's so hard to get back in that zone again. In that zone, yeah. Done, right? Yeah, and for him, when he is when he's in his head about something and he's so focused and he's so good at that, he's so focused when he when he's in a goal to or in a mission to accomplish something, he's so zoned in and he's like everything else gets kind of like forgotten. He's so he'll sell tunnel vision until he gets that done. And to me before that bothered me because I wanted attention. But then I realized it's like, okay, wait, no, he's trying to get that done. It doesn't mean that he loves you less, it doesn't mean that you're forgotten, it doesn't mean any of that. So if I focus on this, it doesn't mean I love you less. It doesn't mean I'm I've forgotten you, it doesn't mean you know what I mean? So we try to understand each other's way of doing um as a means of communication, right? And that took years of like of com fighting over it, I guess.
SPEAKER_00And then we learn. And and sometimes it it requires um it requires that that that conflict, that that disagreement, you know. Um because I strongly believe that the coup the difference between the couples that make it and the couples that don't are the ones that know how to repair well after a conflict. And so when when your marriage knows uh or when your marriage means that much to you, you do want to invest that time and that energy and you know set those emotions aside. Again, emotions are not bad, but we shouldn't be led by them. You know, they're important. You know, and I believe yeah, I believe God gave us gave them to us for uh on purpose. But at the same time, we do need that opportunity to say, um, okay, what what is happening in this moment? You know, um what I said might have hurt you this way. And, you know, so for one, I apologize. Let's talk about what that really meant. And, you know, because sometimes we do have to um, you know, set the problem solving aside for a minute and actually talk about what we're feeling in the moment. I feel disrespected, I felt unheard, I felt like you weren't listening or, you know, whatever, whatever that um, whate you know, whatever the the what you said, the language is that we need to communicate how what's happening in that moment. Because all of those things, if if not dealt with, they end up being an obstacle to our um communication going forward. And that uh we we get nowhere with that.
SPEAKER_04And I also think that when you're uh we you know, uh when God is the center of your marriage, right? You need to be able to pray first. Like there are days when I'd be praying like, ah, that's your son. That is your son. Okay, I'm trying to do my best here. But that's a that's the God honest truth. You sometimes have that conversation with God. You're like, I this way, he did this, you know what I mean? Like, uh I know there's a lesson to be learned here. Yeah. And you know, what is it? What is it I'm trying to what is it that I'm I'm trying to learn, right? And sometimes it's uh you gotta be candid with God about certain stuff. And you're like, I I need your I need the wisdom here. But you know, and and you know, I say this the same way you're reacting to it. I laugh because I'm like, what was that? Like that, you know, what was that? And at the end of the day, he has the same thing, like, you know, God, what's going on? Like, look at her. Look at you, girl. What are we doing right now? Right, and then we come back and we're like, okay, listen, this is happening. Um, but I think if you can invite God into the center of your marriage and have a He's that counselor that you talk to, that you seek wisdom, and you go to your Bible, like, okay, what's the Bible say about this? Right. And sometimes you gotta check yourself too. You're like, okay, yeah, you're being a certain way too. You're not, you know, you don't want this, but at the same time, you're being a certain way too. Yeah. So it's also I I think it's such marriage is such is such a special thing because it's the closest to you. It's the closest to you that can really teach you a lesson. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right?
SPEAKER_04A lot of things you can like, you're like, yeah, whatever, I don't really care, right? But not with your marriage, not when it comes to your marriage, not when it comes to your marriage, not when it comes with your kids. Yes. Not in c not when it comes to like your business, because it's it affects it's it's in your core, right? So I feel like God uses the things that are closest to your heart to refine you. 100%. 100%. Without those, without those, I don't know that I would be the woman that I am today if it wasn't for those lessons, if it wasn't for those discussions, if it wasn't for the, you know what I mean, the tr the struggles.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I agree. I agree a hundred percent because um, again, it goes back to, you know, if we if we say we have faith and it's never tested or it's never tried, then, you know, do you really have faith? I think the same way with our marriage, because um, I've actually heard uh women say, I wish we at least, you know, we could at least have a fight, just have a disagreement, so I can at least know how he feels about certain things or, you know, um, or you know, what his opinion is on whatever it is, or what he's passionate about. Because that's when we learn what our spouse is passionate about in those moments of disagreement. You know, and so yeah, it's it's um our marriage is that one place where we're in that centering and we're gonna, we it this has to happen. You know, it I can't just walk away. At least we shouldn't just walk away, you know, and then that's why you have people that have four or five divorces, because hey, the moment it got hard, they're like, okay, I'm I'm out of here. But no, it if if you got married and understand that you got married for a purpose, your marriage is is um is more than just my happiness. It's it's so much more than that. It's intertwined, it's locked in to the purpose of God. And I always say, what is your marriage contributing to the return of Jesus Christ? What does that actually look like? How is it contributing to that fact, to that, you know, what is the legacy that's being you know left behind? All of those things, you know, and so once we get a good understanding that our marriage is for God's purpose and not just my comfort, you know, contrary to popular belief, contrary to my belief, contrary to my feelings, you know, we stay in there and we work it through. And I love the point that you made. You said, um, well, what does the Bible say about this? And sometimes, you know, you have your truth, you have, you know, your husband have his truth. And so at some point we have to stop and say, okay, let's go to the word, because the word is what will center us. I don't know what other people's um what their foundation is. And I feel for folks that don't have that um, you know, that solid, you know, objective uh foundation that they can refer to. But if you're a believer and you go to the word and it's like, God, what are you saying about, you know, this situation? You know, and again, God is never, God, you know, and I probably need to always do this as a disclaimer, but we're not talking abusive relationships here. That is not the topic of conversation, and we're not encouraging, I'm not encouraging anyone to stay in relationships where there are being harmed, where there, you know, there's hurt and pain will happen. And that's not a topic here at all. We're talking to that marriage where you, you know, you want to work on your marriage. You want to get to that point where um you don't want to give up on your marriage, but we're we're we're kind of stuck. And so a lot of times we have to refer to the word, God, where is it? What season do you have us in? You know, because right now our marriage feels a little lull. It feels a little dry. What is happening? What do I need to do? Um, what stage are we at? What is, you know, what is happening with my husband? How do I show up and support him? Support the marriage, support myself, start um cultivating or water the the gifts that's on the inside of me. How do I step into that? What do I need to do when it comes to that part? And I like you the way you said it. Let's go to the word. What does the word have to say about this particular thing?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00This conversation, this, this hurt, this harm, this pain, whatever that looks like.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. And you know, there's there's there's a parable, there's a verse related to anything you could possibly think of in topic. I don't want to know. It actually supplements me, and I always read the Bible. And if there's a topic that I'm like, I don't know, let me check what the Bible says about this, right? And then I I go through it and I'm like, huh, that's so fitting. And even if if I don't do that, right? And yet I go to church and I take my kids to church on Wednesdays and Sundays, right? Even the message sometimes is like, I was just talking, I was just thinking that yes, earlier today. And then something comes up or a song pops up, and I'm like, he's talking to me. I know he's that was for me.
SPEAKER_01You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_04But part of it is also having, like I said, inviting Jesus into your life, having him as a center of your marriage, and just you as a person. Yeah, I I I don't know either. Like if you didn't have that sure foundation, like where would you go? Yeah. What you know what I mean? So uh it's it's definitely made big difference when I started doing that on leaning in more on who Jesus is and how big he is versus me. Yeah, versus who I am and thinking that I can control everything. Because when you're younger, right, when you're just you, you're invincible. You think you could do anything. Oh no. I know everything. Yeah, right. And when you're a little older, especially when little kids look up to you and you're like, now what, mom? You're all of a sudden you're like, I'm nothing.
SPEAKER_03I don't have anything figured out, you know, and you're like, God, I was just kidding. I don't have anything figured out. I was joking.
SPEAKER_00God, I was just playing it. I was just playing. I don't know anything. I'm like, Jesus. Like, but yeah, that is so true. Um, but I wanted to dive into a little bit more here. Um, do you think do you think that we always recognize when our expectations are unrealistic, unspoken, or assumed, or rooted in our past experiences? That's a really good one.
SPEAKER_04Because it wasn't maybe a couple years ago that I didn't even realize that, because like I said, when my dad died, I I didn't feel any luck. There was no part of me who said, Oh, you know, I missed out on something. There was nothing like that, right? But it wasn't up until a few years ago that I realized, wait, it does have an underlying effect in me, right? Growing up, I always heard the stories of like, oh, you know, when your dad was alive, you were his favorite. You were his favorite. Like you were the apple of his eye. You were like his favorite, right? So to me, in hindsight, if my husband doesn't give me that, I feel you know what I mean. If that I don't feel like I'm the apple of his eye. If I don't feel like I'm the favorite, something in me is like, uh, something is off. We're about to start a fight. It's about to go down. It's about to go down. But I didn't realize that I had this habit of like, oh, wait, and remember what I told you earlier that when he's focused on a mission, he's so insane and he's locked in until he gets that done. Well, how does that work for me when I want to be the apple of the eye? You know what I mean? Like, how does that work? It doesn't. So now I I didn't realize that I had that. And I got that from being told that, hey, you're dad, you were the apple of his eye. You were like the princess, you were this, you were that. Right? And I didn't even realize that I had that in me because I just, you know, I was, I was, I grew up confident. I grew up knowing who I am, and I didn't need attention from anybody because I enjoyed myself. And if you didn't like me, I like I love me. So you know what I mean. So then I didn't realize that that's something that I seek from my husband. But I'm a s um but that came from my childhood, and I didn't realize that up until a few years back when I'm like, oh, I do do that. And then it also is just not me, right? I'm also realizing that a lot of his childhood, what he went through, whatever he experienced, whatever is also reflecting on how he is with me, and how he wants to be cared for.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And why he doesn't want to be felt like he I just abandoned him because I want alone time. There's also that, right? So first thing is you need to recognize what it is that you what it is that you you bring in or what it is that you're coming up for. If you don't know that, then it's it's always gonna be it's it you can't you can't fix what you don't know, or at least you can't be aware, you can't adjust accordingly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So the first is uh is you know, and the only way you could really identify that is if you sit still in the presence of frustrations. When you're frustrated about something that's happening, right, you need to sit with it and be like, okay, why am I frustrated about why why this? Why am I frustrated about this? What about this makes me mad? Yeah. What about it attaching to inside? Yeah, what uh what meaning did I give to it, right? Because really the per the the event itself is very neutral, right? You're the one that gives it meaning whether it's good or bad. Yes, you give it the value. You give it the value, right? Even with my kids, that's how I when we talk about their feelings, so it's okay, well, he did this. Okay, well, how did that make you feel? Because they're the ones that put the label onto it, right? It's neither good nor bad. So when and it's funny because the only way you're able to identify things like that is like I said, in the frustration, in the fight, in the thick of it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Then you have to self-reflect and be like, okay, why am I feeling this? Why am I, you know? And that's why I love what you said earlier. If you don't have a marriage code, get one. Because sometimes we're too close that we can't see. You I I'm sure you see that if you you're not your your kid, they're like, Mommy, look at this, and you're and they're like, whatever it is. Mommy, mommy, look at this, right? And you're like, I can't see, pull that back. Sometimes it's like that in marriage too, right? Sometimes you're so close, you're so in the middle of it, yeah, that you can't see. Right. And and the only way I was able to um and the only way I know that you could you could identify those things is when you take a t a step back, when you're frustrated, when you're upset, when you're in the thick of it, and then really analyze what it is. Aside from that, you really need to have somebody that you can talk to and trust. Yeah. And trust. And trust. I get trust and trust. Yeah, and trust.
SPEAKER_00Because not all advice is good advice. No, no, no. It I and and it's it's I'm glad you brought that point up. Because a lot of times people are advising from their own hurts and their own pain. And you have to be cautious of that as well. And so you want to keep an eye on what fruit are they bringing to the table? How do they navigate their own marriages? What are some of the the uh, like you say, when they when you when they get squeezed, what comes out of them? What are some of the the things that they say about their spouse when their spouse isn't in their presence? You have those are the things you want to look out for when you talk about a mentor or a coach or that type of thing. You know, I I get when you know people on the internet said, oh, I I you know, I wouldn't um I didn't feel comfortable working with you until I met you in person. That's cool. That is okay, you know, and so a lot of times I show up on social media with makeup, without makeup, you know, walking, not walking in the house, wherever, because that's who I am. I show up in these different spaces, but you're always gonna get the authentic me. Yes, you know what I mean? And so, yeah, that is that is so important.
SPEAKER_04We were just talking about that meeting, my husband, the other day, where we said, you know what? People can say the most beautiful things. People can say what they think you want them to hear. They can, and people and on social media, they can curate what they want to say. They can now script what they want to say or how they want to be perceived, right? But at the end of the day, it's what's in your heart, it's your action that's gonna speak louder than any script out there that you could curate. 100%. It's what's in your heart.
SPEAKER_00Yep, yeah, 100%. Um you know, when you mentioned that um you mentioned that your father died at such a young age, and so your example was really a strong, independent woman. So how do you go into marriage being strong, independent, opinionated, um, you know, smart, all of those things, you know? And because that's a legitimate question when you, you know, especially when you're talking about um marriage, uh, you know, and I'm um I am a woman that believes that yes, we we we are called to submit to our husband. But when I submit doesn't mean we come like uh, you know, under his, what did it say, under his um command. My husband is not a commander, you know, my husband is a leader with a mission, and I submit to that mission. So tell me how you step into, how did you step into marriage, you know, knowing that, hey, I can do life by myself, but you know, I'm gonna go do life over here with this person.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's such a great question. And there are days that I'm when I look back to how we started and there were friction there where I was, I am uh opinionated for I do speak my mind. I'm not the type to just sit back and not have an opinion about things. So the good thing is that my husband um he's he I don't know that attracted him about me, right? So let's start there. Yeah, he knew that about me because we met in uh um a corporate environment, right? In a business setting. So he knew that about me. If anything, the day that he met me, it was because the CEO of the company would ask me to go to his office to give my opinion about my husband's company. It was it was like that. I was brought in as the second pair of eye to look at. So he knew that about me. And I'd like to think that that's what attracted him about me. So he knew me from that setting. Yeah. So I don't think that that bothered him or be like, I don't know. Right. Now marriage side when we come to the when we start making decisions, it was an adjustment. There were certain things that he wanted to make the decisions about and there are certain things that I want to make decisions about. And those are the things that we kind of had to learn about each other. Yes. Yeah. So for instance we we have kids, right? So I already knew that I want them going to Sunday school. I want to I want them to you know certain things that I want them to learn. But at the same time we also have a baseline of what we both agree on. So I think it took learning also what he it was important to him when it comes to making decisions and what was important to me as far as making decisions. And you can't be afraid to speak your mind about what it is that you want to speak on. That's one thing. Because if you don't it's going to eat you up inside. Yes yes like I said in the beginning of my marriage I told you because I didn't have a set of expectation a lot of the beginning of our marriage was based on his expectations. Right, right. So I had to be like wait a minute that's not how I want it to be and I needed to speak up and be like no actually that's not how I want this marriage to be or that's not how I want to participate in this marriage or that it's it can't be all that right there was a time in my life where my career was just oh and to give you guys context when me and my husband met we kind of from the moment we started dating we didn't really separate like we were always together right even in the business that we were in we were together. But there was a time where I actually went to San Francisco. I was recruited by a mobile tech company in San Francisco. And when I got offered that job um I we're married mind you we're married we have a house together we lived here and this job is in San Francisco. But I'm like but I really really want to go there and he's like well I can't move there and then I'm like but I really want because he has a job here and I'm like well it's only an hour flight back and we actually did that which would have wouldn't have made sense for a lot of marriages but we did. I actually went to San Francisco. I was there for about three years I had a place there and everything. I flew back and forth uh for a while but those are the things that allow that made me that I respect about my husband because he allowed me the opportunity to explore what I wanted to explore was that right he's he's the type of person who's like well I'm not going to prevent you from wanting to like if this is something that's important to you then you do that. Right. And but we but does that mean that we just get to coax about our marriage? No, if anything we had to work harder. Right. Right. I coordinate everything like I said I'm a big believer that your your career your business has to fit your life not the other one. So I made it work. I I would um I would make I would book flights back and forth. It was an hour flight to Ontario um and then um I would fly back and I would be there in a week. You know what I mean? So I made it work made it work. We worked extra hard because of it but we made it work. Yeah so those are the things that little things that it's a I don't I hate saying the word compromise because it makes it seem that someone is losing or like you both lost. Yeah. Right? But it's an agreement between the two people that this is what you're okay. You're like I'm okay. I'm we're going to make this work or you know you're going to be happy I'm going to be happy we're both going to be happy we're both going to win in this yeah that's the that's what I want to take out of it. It's it's not so much as a compromise but like an agreement between the two is like okay this is this is what's got got to happen for it to work for both of us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And and it's so I mean you said three years. So it was just a season. It was a season that hey this is what we're this is what we're going to do. This is a challenge for right now you know what uh again when you squ when that squeezed what came out of us how do we grow going you know going through that um Rob and I are both um we were both we both met in the military actually we were in South Korea at the time on a remote assignment. Wow and it was a season um you know we met a lot of um you know at the time we met a lot of people that were that were there without their spouses you know and so to me it's no different than a you know a military family that had to be separated for a you know a length of time you wouldn't say okay well now you you know you're compromising your whole marriage well it's a mission well same thing here you know um then so I I I I I agree with that um one of the things you mentioned was how he was um you know he he basically created the space for you to pursue the things that were dear to your heart in other words he didn't just see you as a wife you are whole you are a whole woman a whole person that have dreams and desires and and and um ambitions you know and I love when um when you know when our husbands come up come you know come alongside us and say okay babe whatever you want to do I got you you know because you know most people know that you know as a as an author speaker coach there are times when I travel and then my husband can't come along with me but he's okay with that he's he's good with that and as a matter of fact he's the type that he likes being in the background he likes staying in the back of the room he's like you know sometimes I'll drag him on stage and he's like how did I get run into this but he's he's my support beam he you know I can't do any of these things that I do without him having my back and so um you know a lot of times we we um as wives we we we keep our you know we we put a blanket on ourselves and we you know we don't speak up when we need you know we think that's of course we want to be heard and so I think in uh in a healthy marriage you know as a you know since uh this podcast is really being targeted to wives you need to let your voice be heard uh which by any means necessary and I don't mean getting crazy you know still stay respectful still honor your your marriage and honor your husband but you do want to uh you know let your voice be heard because I truly believe that the gifts and callings that God has put on the inside of us if we don't start bringing those out yeah I'm I I I truly that the for one your marriage is missing out and the world at large is missing out. I think there's a there's a scripture in um I want to believe that it's I want to say it's Romans. I can't think of it right now but it says the whole world is groaning for the manifestation of the sons of God. And we the gifts that God has placed on the inside of us the world is literally sitting there waiting like we need this you know I don't know what this is but we need this to you know if nothing else to usher in the return of Christ you know and to grow our marriage. Your marriage needs your gift it does I I don't care what anybody says that I better say I stand 10 toes deep on that one you know I'm I'm gonna die on this mountain because I truly do there's no reason why God would not have why God would have put a gift in you if it wasn't gonna benefit your marriage.
SPEAKER_04Exactly you know exactly no you know just to to bring back to that story like what you said like it it you need to have those conversations because it also allows for your opportunity for your spouse to show up for you in the way. Yes they need to be in the way you need to see them show up for you. Yes had I not act that had I not pursued that because that's really what I wanted he wouldn't have had the opportunity to show up for me the way he did and be like yeah and then down the road you know what I mean I'm like oh yeah like I'm he's got you know what I mean like it it's a it's a you have to look at your mar marriage as a whole and not just the essence of it because every season is different.
SPEAKER_00Yeah sometimes and so uh sorry about that but he he he's he showed up in a way that you didn't even you required him to you pull something out of him and had that season had that season not show up you wouldn't have known him in that capacity.
SPEAKER_04No no not at all he wouldn't know me at that capacity either of that woman I was becoming because of that season. Right and you know what in hindsight when we look back to that season um there's lessons that was learned during that season there was refinement that was being refined during that season like if we go back to that season and just hone into that specific year we're like oh my gosh like this happened that year for you this happened for me and that's what you know what I mean and then from years from now we're like oh it went you know what I mean like there's lessons and in hindsight you'll see that that that was meant to happen. Yeah yeah because it we had to go through it.
SPEAKER_00So true oh my gosh that is so true. Now how do you believe that um women can create uh healthy conversations instead of silent frustration so there's a lot of a lot of us we have we know we have these gifts on the inside of us we know that we need to um there's more God is calling me to do you know um and and for some that's part that's contributing to them being stuck you know because they know that they they're called to so much more not that wifehood is not a major part of who we are but it's not the only part. So how would you speak to that young woman that's just hey she just sitting in her corner frustrated because she for one she doesn't have the language to even voice what she needs and sh you know she she just don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_04Yeah that's um that's a really good question and I want to be able to provide you with an answer that's gonna really resonate with the one that's listening. Yeah and the one way I know how to do that is to tell a story. So a few months ago I was in a season where I was saying to myself man I have a business I you know but a lot of my clients were very remote so all I did was just talk to people on Zoom. Yeah right I felt very disconnected to the world I have my kids obviously I love hanging out with them but it just something was missing something was just it's just it's missing. And I felt stuck like what is it? What's going on? Right and I was praying over this and I didn't know really know what to do. And I read I don't know which Bible verse it was but it was something along the line that you know life is meant to be lived in a community and not in isolation in meaning like you need you need people. It's not just you. Yeah right and when you read something like that as a wife if you tend to think oh it's my husband it's my family but sometimes it's not your husband sometimes it's a group of other women that you can connect with have conversations with and just open up to right and this is such a full circle moment because around that time is when I went to an event and I met somebody who was actually in the same circle. Chrissa you might know her. Oh yeah Chris. Yeah so I I didn't actually I went to an uh an event in Huntington Beach and that's where I I guess Chris had gone to that event also and um but we didn't meet at the event we actually met after the event online on right um but she's like hey you should come out and meet like you should come out to one of my events and meet other women entrepreneurs right and I went to the event and my mind was blown Karen I'm like wait there's other women that are building their business and they're out here and they're communicating and and through that I met Monina and through that I met Mary Grace and through that and it I met you Karen and we went so it was a moment of deciding it's like okay I feel stuck right I feel so first I prayed what I need to do. God showed me life is meant to be lived in a community right so I'm like okay I need to be out there. I can't just be behind the screen right and from there it kind of just trickled and like and now moving forward I mean a few months from now and this was back in November of last year right I've been to so many events I've met so many amazing women right I've had so many great conversations with people all because I was faithful in asking and doing yes yeah right sometimes we ask for answers but when an answer is given to us we don't take actions so if you're in a season of your life right now where you feel like you're stuck and you just don't know what to do and you know it might not necessarily be your marriage that's preventing you from but you know something is missing you need to seek seek what first of all seek pray pray for what it is that the season is trying to teach you right and then when you get that answer act on it. Don't just sit pray and do nothing because God can show you the door but he's not gonna walk you through it. Yeah yeah right he's not gonna put you through it that's for sure he's not he's not and it's you know and you know and it's I'm not saying that every single time that I get an epiphany or like God talks to me like you need to do this I jump on it right away. I'm not saying that right but I am saying that when you seek for that solution when you're when you're trying to get out of the rut that you're in the answer is there. The answer is out there. If anything it's probably in your heart already but if something that you're choosing to like no maybe it's not that yeah yeah right yes in your heart of heart there's something already in your heart like oh it's that isn't it and you're like no probably it's not because it's scary or it's like you know but you you gotta listen to that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And and a lot of time you say the word scary because it is some but not for obviously not for everyone but for me it was that I was like oh my gosh I'm not you know you you step into a room with you know the other um you know women entrepreneurs you're like okay um I know my little one person business over here maybe they have like a you know 50 employee company and you're you know you already feel a little small and you know you and sometimes I you know it's like I don't want to get into those rooms I don't want to get into those spaces I don't want to nope I'm not going. And it took me a minute to like girl wait a minute everybody started as that one person you know so yes step out there find your tribe you know and it's so good that you said yeah you might be stuck in your marriage but it may not be your marriage it may not be your husband especially when your husband is pursuing the things that he wants to do yes yes he found his favor I mean his purpose he's something out there is like babe we're we're closing this deal or we're traveling here or we're doing that and we're still like he gets to do all the things but you get to do all the things too exactly exactly both you and your spouse are both living in this living this life together I feel like sometimes when you already like you're married and you have kids and you're you think life is just this okay this is a new no you're still this is still your life you're still living it that you'll everybody's living this one life and you're still living your life and learning and evolving. Yes 100% so um so what do you think are some practical shifts that um you know that women can take to get outside of that box can you know come out of your corner um I I spoke to one young lady one time and she says um you know when she got married she actually just stopped dreaming she stopped dreaming she's like I'm not I'm good marriage is all I needed until 10 13 14 years later she realized nope I still have dreams I still have desires so how would you um how what what advice or how would you handle that? What would what would be your next step you know to s for somebody like that? Yeah so um let's see when your how do I explain that what was the last sentence he said I want to reference it when I um so the you know that's practical shifts to help them kind of basically you know if nothing else reconnect to who they are you know what their identity is who is God calling them to be you know because see I I guess what I'm what I'm mainly getting at is we we we know we're called to more you know what I mean we we know that we're called to do you know big things and and I mean it could be it could be writing a book it could be starting a business we don't know what that is for that but for that one person you have that dream and that desire on the inside of you and somehow you've convinced yourself that now that I'm married wifehood is my new title I can't possibly do this over here. How do you help that woman connect back to that dream?
SPEAKER_04Yeah um you you really need to live your life in a way where that milestone is not the end it's not you know the end of the journey like marriage is not the end of the journey building a business is not the end of the journey. Getting the kids is not the end of the journey right and because you're in this journey right a lot of things happen. Just think about it when you're traveling from here to San Diego right you have you if you make stops along the way there's a lot of things that happen. Yeah absolutely I think there's this misconception of like when you're married that's it that your life now revolves around your husband and your family only. It can be if that's what you want. If that's what you want exactly if that's what you want right and but a lot of times I'm seeing on online where even online like stay at home moms they would say like you know kind of like this is it like there's this you have to also understand there's different seasons in your life in your marriage right when you have little kids there's very little things you can do in the in the fur in the beginning stages of that right that you can do yourself because as a mom we're built to be nurturers so we spent a lot of the beginning years of motherhood nurturing our children catering to our children right that might not be everybody but for the most part that's what we do. But I love how like you know stay-at-home moms they found joy in that by creating content around their motherhood and some they even poke fun at the hardship of motherhood and I love watching those because they're articulating the words that I was thinking during that season. That same season right motherhood you know what I mean so in every season of life you have to have the shift of like you're you it seems like you're the only one going through this but you're not you're not alone okay other women are going through this. Yes right and it's just a matter of being able to find people that you could trust that you could speak with and share with them. And that's why I think mom groups they're so underrated. Yeah but being part of mom groups really helps you because you know being part of an entrepreneur women's group is so important because you just you just have certain um hardship that you guys go through that you could like hey I'm going through this right now in my business. I'm going through this right now and that's so Important, you know.
SPEAKER_00A lot of times it's unique to that, it's unique to that um uh uh dynamic, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yes, and that the shift of being able to express that with another person, that's the shift that's needed. I think when you're a mom, you internalize a lot of things, yeah, and you have conversations within yourself that you forget that it's okay to have conversations with other people about this, and it's probably gonna do you better if you do, because they're probably going through the same thing. And if not that, if it's not that, just like this the the podcast that you're doing, right? Like every conversation that you're having right now, even if it's just one person who heard a specific episode that resonated with them, something's gonna stick and they're gonna carry that from here on out. Absolutely. As a standard in their marriage, as a standard in the way they live their life, right? And if it was, if it was anything, if that episode was just meant for that one person, it would have been worth it. That's a success.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Absolutely. So it's yeah, and and I I can so I can so see that. So if you you know you're stuck in that in that in that space where you feel like, oh, I don't know what to do now. I know I have this desire on the inside of me. What I'm hearing you say is, you know, reach out for one, pray about it so that you would so God can guide you towards the right tribe. Because you don't want to step in there and be vulnerable with the wrong group of people. That's important to be to recognize as well. So recognize your tribe. And so I um, you know, you you you you spoke throughout the conversation, you mentioned, you know, your your business, your your marriage, and uh, and the kids. That's obviously that is your that's your trifecta. You know. So talk a little bit about your business. What is it that you do, who you help, and if there's anybody in the audience that do run a business, may think, you know, they may want to, you know, pop in and see you and meet you or whatever. So tell us a little bit about that and how also how it fits into your life. How have you made it fit into your life?
SPEAKER_04Yes. So I'm a big believer that um financial well-being of a family affects whether it's stressful or not stressful, whether there's arguments or no arguments or unnecessary arguments, right? Finances is one of those things that affects household more than anything else, right?
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_04Um, so in my business, I work with a lot of local businesses. Because local businesses really um contributes to the community, it contributes to the community and just the neighborhood, right? So my way of thinking when I establish my business is that hey, if I can help businesses succeed in bringing revenue into their business, then the families in the community will be taken care of. Yes. Right? So if if anybody listening is in the season of they're building towards a business where they want more consistent revenue, where a where a business is something that's they're building towards a business that doesn't consume them, but rather allows them to edify their family and their community. I would love to talk to them. I would love to have that conversation. Because I feel like a lot of businesses, they they created their business and they really didn't have the conversation of how to grow it properly. Not because they didn't, not because they didn't know how, because obviously they launched their business, but launching a business and being able to provide the service looks very different from being able to consistently get consistent customers, consistent revenue, consistent all that, right? So my business is really educating and working with local businesses to be able to build a business that's gonna support their family and support their communities and ultimately help grow the kingdom of God. Yeah. So if anybody's working towards that, then I would love to connect with them.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_04And you're in um Corona, California, right? I'm in Eastville, yeah. It's near Corona, but Eastville, California. And then they could um connect with me on Instagram. I'm sure it's gonna be in the show note, but it's Kakia Dexor. Um, but yeah, I would love to connect with them.
SPEAKER_00Yes, sounds amazing. And for the audience, you know, and I always leave a lot of stuff out of my my intro because I'm always so I'm ready to get into the conversation. But I'm here in Las Vegas, and so I know you work remotely with a lot, you know, with a lot of your customers. You mentioned that in the conversation. So you don't even have to be, um, you don't have to be in the California, in California or in the corona area to work with Katya. You can reach out to her even if you're in Vegas, you know, if you're listening from the East Coast. Um, I have listeners all the way in Iceland and some parts of Africa and you know, China, Japan. So wherever you are, social media bring us, yeah, bring us all together. So uh reach out to her and and have that conversation. Katya, yeah, I mean, we could talk all day long, and I so appreciate you taking the time to carve out this time so we can have this conversation. Um, for those of you listening, again, reach out to Katya. Her information will be in the show notes. And so, you know, hey, connect with her and and and see how she can be of help to you. Again, thank you so much for joining us on another episode of the State of Our Union and the fight to keep it. Again, it's Karen Williams. Talk to you soon.