The State of Our Union [And the fight to keep it]
A marriage podcast designed to encourage reconnection, through open dialogue about the topics that challenges most marriages.
The State of Our Union [And the fight to keep it]
Direct Your Marriage Towards Purpose | Dr. Eboni Bell
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In this episode, Dr. Eboni Bell shares her insights on marriage, navigating multiple moves, personal growth, and building a fulfilling life within and outside of marriage. She emphasizes the importance of self-awareness, purpose, and intentionality in creating a strong, resilient partnership.
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Thanks for tuning in! If today’s EP resonated with you, subscribe, like, and share it with someone who needs it. Connect with me on all platforms @karenwillcoach - and if you are ready to go deeper, join the community and continue the conversation inside my Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/loveandconflict" Until next time, let’s continue to fight for our union.
Hello again. This is another episode of The State of Our Union and the Fight to Keep It. And if you're new here, I am Karen Williams, your host. I am one of my so many things. Relationship coach, author, speaker. And I um, you know, of course, jumped into podcasting. Oh, geez, about six months ago, and just feel like, hey, we got so much to talk about when it comes to marriage. For those of you, again, that's new here. This is season two. And so season two, we are really focusing on the wife. We call it her side of the union. And today, my awesome guest is Dr. Ebony Bell. Uh, Dr. Ebony Bell is a not just a friend of mine, but she is an amazing educator. And I am going to, you know, just swing it over to her and let her introduce herself to you. Sure.
SPEAKER_00Well, first, first of all, thank you and congratulations on podcast and all that you've been doing, your books, all the things. Congratulations. Um yes, Kieran, I would say yes, you are a dear friend of mine. And I'm so excited to be here today to simply share the wisdom that I've learned. I've been married for about 16 years as of September. And um, you know, I grew up in a unique family situation, which we'll talk about a little bit later, that kind of helped shape who I was as a wife. And now I'm happily living into, you know, who I believe I should be as a wife. Um, and so today I'm just really looking forward to kind of sharing some of my experience, um, things that I've learned. And like you said, I'm an educator, so I kind of love um coming from a teaching aspect, but also just really down to earth. I just love people. I also love families. Um, I do plan to go into couples therapy um in the next few years. So um yeah, that's a little bit about me love traveling.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah. Awesome, awesome. So good to have you here. And so we are going to dive right in. So in the in the beginning, when we did our um, you know, uh pre we do whatever you want to call it, application process, you know, one of the things, um one of the things you shared was one of the one of the major challenges that you your family uniquely um face is the move, six moves. Wow. And you're not even a military family. Share a little share a little bit about that and you know, why the moves, you know, what how that affected your family and you know some of the challenges around that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so as we all know, you know, transitions in general are one of the hardest parts of life as an individual and certainly as um a married couple. And then when you add children into the mix, any kind of transition can bring a lot of stress um into your life that you have to kind of navigate. So um, long story short, my life is very, very similar to a military family. Um, my husband is a United Methodist pastor. And um at this point, every five or six years, you know, he has been called and placed into a new position. And so um it's been okay for me as an educator because I can easily find a job anywhere, which is great. Um, but it has definitely been, um, I would say the hardest part of our marriage is each of the transitions and gathering all the things up, deciding what you want to keep in every season. Every season you can't take everything with you. Um, right? Literally, figuratively, you just can't. You know, it's almost like you're having a new start multiple times. So depending on how you look at it, it could be actually a great thing. Um, but it's also definitely has been very challenging in terms of getting everyone settled, making sure that I'm kind of the foundation in terms of my sons and you know, kind of um making sure that they transition to new schools, we get in the right neighborhood so that we can have a good school. Um then also just making sure that they are comfortable with their surroundings socially as well, right? Um, and so navigating it as a wife and being supportive to my husband has been one thing, and then navigating it as a mom and being supportive to my sons has been another. Now, I will finish the answer to this question by saying this. All of that is great, but I'm still a woman. And I'm still a woman who has a purpose. And so the reason why it has been both, I would say, challenging, stressful, at times frustrating, but also extremely rewarding is because each of the moves and each of the transitions has definitely built me into who I am today. Um, it has allowed me to come into new circles. It has allowed me to meet new people. I love traveling. So that's one of the, you know, you get to learn a new environment. Where is your your favorite lunch spot going to be? Where is your new nail shop gonna be? It has helped me become a more organized person and definitely a committed wife. You have to be committed to say, you know what, you have a new job, regardless of who I, you know, see myself as. I am going to commit to be in this with you. And yeah, I'll just leave it at that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Because that definitely is a commitment. And I, you know, even have the that same conversation with some military wives, and they they'll tell you they thought they were ready for it. They thought they were to, you know, to pack up and move and do all the things, and not just the move itself, but there's a there's a um, I think there's an unexpected um loss or sense of loss when they have to pack up and move away from family of origin. You know, we always think, oh, we're ready to leave. We're I don't I'm not gonna go by my mama's house every week. Well, you kind of miss mom's house every week, you know, once you don't have access to it anymore. Yeah. And I love the word you look you use there. Um, and it's a simple word, committed. You know, you're committed to not just who your husband is becoming, um, not just you know who your kids are becoming, but who Ebony is becoming.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And in the in each of the moves, you have to kind of make that decision how is that gonna feed me as well as my entire family. So that's a big mess.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, you also mentioned, and this is important for for wives, is developing an individual, fulfilling life within your marriage. Tell me how you have done that, or tell the audience how you have done that, or you know, continue to do that. Yeah. And how can we get started and still bring your husband along the journey with you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I first want to tackle that question by saying that for most of my life I was a people pleaser. Um, it was just part of my nature, uh, part of just how I functioned as the oldest daughter in the family of five. Um, I took on that role unknowingly of just wanting to please everyone around me. I think that I carried that into my marriage maybe like the first five or six years. I was definitely the wife who was extremely submissive, not saying that I'm not now, but I mean to the point where, you know, my own desires were not like paramount for me. You know what I mean? Um so overcoming that was one that was a huge key, right? Like overcoming the fact that my needs do matter. Um, God is calling me to submit, just as he's calling my husband to submit to me, we submit to one another. However, when your submission um begins to overlap your purpose, your destiny, your own personal desires, your soul, right, needs to be cared for, right? Your soul is real. We are not just spirit, we are also soul, which means that we have wants and we have desires. And when you put those on the back burner for too long, lots of things can develop. Resentment can develop. You can be resenting yourself, you can resent your spouse, you can resent, you know, you can be angry at God. There's so much that happens when you begin to um actually realize that you're doing it. That's when, that's when it really starts taking a turn. When you acknowledge, like, oh my goodness, for the past five or six years, I haven't been thinking about my own individual needs or my own wants to the degree that I should.
SPEAKER_03Right, right, right, right.
SPEAKER_00So if I wanted to start there because that was the beginning of the journey for me to begin to come back into who Ebony is, back into who I am as a woman, not just as a wife. And so now, 16 years in, I am confident that I can fully live out, you know, my purpose, my destiny, my desire to travel, my um, my dreams and my goals, my business ventures, all of those things are what keep me whole. They keep me, they keep my soul in a place where I can actually serve other people. First, definitely, you know, serve God, then serve my husband, then serve my children, um, and then serve the rest of the world, right? Like the world has always been my playground. Like I always dreamed of that. And though in the future, actually I have, you know, some aspirations to live abroad. Um, right now I'm focused on how I can still be fulfilled with where I am, you know, being a mom, being a wife, and definitely looking forward to the future. So it is so important to have your own goals, to have your own dreams, to have your own ideas around what God has called you to do and to not get lost in someone else's life. Yes.
SPEAKER_01So, man, that is woo, that is so rich, so very rich, because so many of us get married, and you know, we step into marriage with this huge expectation of this is you know, this is how my marriage is gonna look. You know, the white picket fence, the 2.5 kids, the the dog, the social wagon, you know, all those things. And you know, halfway through where you know, we have to stop and say, hey, wait a minute, what who am I? What am I doing here? What's my purpose? And the thing is because I constantly ran into couples who've been married, you know, the 20 plus years, because it's yeah, it it hits around that's that point because the kids leave home. And then not think, okay, who is this person sitting on the couch with me? Who's who's this individual? And so, you know, you get to a point where you say, okay, what am I supposed to do? You know, what am I uh what's my purpose? What should I be doing? And have to finally have that conversation with ourselves. And so what you're saying is so on point. But also speaking of um, speaking of expectations, roles, and all of the things, we said uh many women intermarriage with unspoken expectations. So talk a little bit about um where your on unspoken expectations were, um, some maybe for partnership, emotional connection, communication, support. What did your unspoken expectation look like? Talk a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I want to first say that, you know, I grew up in my home without my father. And that um helped shape who I became as uh as a teenager, as a college student, as a woman, as a you know, as a woman, and certainly as a wife. Because of that, I do think that in the beginning, um, of course, based on all the movies we watched, the TV shows, the sitcoms, we we see these images of you know, these lovey-dovey situations and these conversations that happen between the husband and the wife, and we kind of began to be shaped by what we see in the media as well as our personal upbringings.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00Those two things combined definitely, I think, you know, created an image of what marriage could or should be, yeah, as opposed to us writing our own story.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00My husband grew up in a household with mom and dad, right? And they were very present. So we had to bring those two backgrounds together and to figure out we literally said the words one day, like, we have to write our own story. We need to paint our own canvas. You know, we need to figure out what this looks like for me. So in the beginning, my expectations may have been um for him really to fulfill what I never had with my dad. Like, I needed that, the covering, the protection, the provision. Um, and don't get me wrong, I'm a very independent woman. I work, I got a job. So I'm not talking about like I needed a man to come and provide for me. I honestly never, I don't think I ever really expected that because I never had that. So it wasn't an expectation for him to like replace what my father did. Like, you know, no. Right. Right.
SPEAKER_03I didn't have that.
SPEAKER_00And even to this day, you know, I love, you know, making my my own money. So I just want to throw that in there. Um, because people have different expectations. I talked to lots of single women today who are expect they do want a man to come in and and do, you know, they want them to pay their bills. And like that's a thing. And I mean, I've for me, it's always been partnership. Um and in today's economy, of course, which this is a whole different topic. But in today's economy, you really need you really need two salaries and obviously so you need some side businesses as well in order to live the particular life that you want to live, depending on what that looks like for you, right?
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00But so my expectations have changed over the years as I've grown as a wife and realized ebony. Just because this didn't happen in your family, you never saw it, doesn't mean you can't rewrite that story. I say all the time, I am so grateful that my husband is present for my sons.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Like even outside of like take marriage off the conversation. That has done my heart well.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00Because that's for me, that's like God fulfilling something in me that I necess I didn't necessarily have, but my sons will not have the void that I had.
SPEAKER_02Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I think again, to answer the question, um, again, I think it's definitely media. Nowadays it's social media as well. And it's also our upbringing and how we saw what marriage could look like, or we never saw what it looked like. You know, so then you gotta start with a whole blank canvas, like I said.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And to, you know, to even add to that, you know, Rob and I have pretty you know some similar stories. Um, yeah, this year will be our 34th wedding out of our street. And yeah, it it's you know, you think, yes, that's that's awesome. And we do, we you know, of course, we do prize that. Um at the same time, we had no examples. We didn't know how we it should look like. Neither one of us, we and you talk about blind canvas, we didn't even have the canvas. We didn't even, you know, we didn't know we didn't have the the paintbrushes to even start. And so, you know, I talk uh on another episode about the importance of having um, you know, solid marriage mentors that you can, you know, whether they know they're mentors to you or not, but you know, having that that that healthy picture that you can, you know, either, you know, glean from, get the ideas from, or nope, we won't do that. You know what I mean? Um, you know, so having that um, you know, having that really good, healthy um examples of what Mary should look like is also uh beneficial. But then you know, you get to a point, like you said, um you you have to come to a point, you and your husband sat down and said, hey, we have to paint our own picture. So at some point, we all have to get to that pivotal moment where we say, okay, we don't have anything to pull from, let's create our own, you know, decide what our relationship is going to look like. And that's that's so important. Um, yes. So it kind of walk us through a little bit, you know, um, share as much as you want or as little as you want. Um, how would you advise um, say, that young person that just got married? They're in year two or year three, they're thinking, oh my God, this nothing is happening the way I had it planned in my head. What do I do? How do I how how do they arrive at that pivotal moment like you guys did, to decide, okay, we're gonna paint our own picture? What what are some of the tools or some of the ideas that you can share with them?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I think that one one thing that I can remember happen happening pretty early in our marriage was around communication to other people about our marriage. Um so that in itself happening multiple times kind of caused us to say, like, okay, what what what boundaries do we want to set? What parameters do we want to set around our marriage, how we deal with what happens in our marriage? Who are our safe people? So that would be maybe the first thing I would say to someone, who are your safe people that if you needed to talk to someone about what's going on in your house, who who is that person? Um, and make sure your husband knows who that is. You know, like that's important as well. Um so again, I think we got there because we realized, like I said before, I didn't grow up with a marriage in front of me that I could necessarily lean on in terms of an image. He he did, but he also didn't want to carbon copy his parents' marriage. There were certain things he, you know, may have wanted to do differently and certain things that, you know, I wanted us to do, and we had to bring that together. And we certainly did um marriage counseling in the midst of, you know, I would say maybe the first five years. Um, that is also number two, marriage counseling, um, individual therapy as well. Because when you do that, what happens is you get to present the situation to someone who um is not in the situation and they get to see it from a fresh lens. And the hope is that you begin to work through some of the things that you've dealt with in your past so that you don't continue to perpetuate them in, you know, in your present or in your future for your marriage.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00Um, and so again, having safe people, um having boundaries, uh, doing individual and couples therapy, I think, regardless of whether your marriage is going well or not, that maintenance is just really, really, really good. And then again, put it on paper, write the vision. Right, yeah. We we sit down every year we do vision boards. We've done that for since we got married. Um, you can even do a digital one now. You don't even need the scissors and the glue stick. You can do a digital one. Say, hey, babe, I started the vision board. Can you add on to this for me? Let's add on to this vision board.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Another thing we do is every single year we set goals individually and as a couple. A lot of the times that's centered around finances. What financial goals do we want to hit this year? How are we going to do that? What action steps do we put, you know, behind that? So that was a lot. Yeah, yeah. But those are some things that I would certainly recommend for people who, even if you're not married yet, it's really thinking through that vision of what you want your marriage to look like spiritually, physically, um, uh emotionally. Uh, how often do you want to sit down and have conversations? Can we carve out a time each day or each week to talk about that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We uh one time we went through a phase where we had financial meetings because we didn't want to talk about money all day. We wanted to just make sure that we had a specific time to do it. So you got to put those systems and processes in place in your marriage just like you do at your job, just like you do in your business. Because those things help, they help create a parameter, they help create an atmosphere where you can operate inside of and everyone understands what um the culture of it is.
SPEAKER_03Yes, right?
SPEAKER_00Your marriage needs a culture, your your marriage culture is not gonna be the same as everybody else's, it just isn't. You are two different people. That's a whole different conversation. But everybody's marriage has a culture, and what works for you doesn't necessarily work for someone else.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So, so so true. And then even as you're sharing all of those um ideas and you know, tools and advice, I am still thinking in the back of my head, and they move six times in the midst of all of that.
SPEAKER_00And in the midst of it, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Midst of that. So, you know, you you know, for those of you listening, you can there's so much here you can take, you know. Hey, remember who your safe people are, establish your safe people if you don't already have those safe people. You know, um, counseling and therapy and coaching and all of those educational things is necessary. They are so necessary to move on and develop those um healthy relationships. And that's my my my favorite is always create that vision, write that vision down. If you oh my gosh, you cannot have a healthy marriage relationship without a vision because you'll be all over the place. Talk about like James said, you'd be tossed to and fro because for if nothing else, you and I are busy looking at all these different people and how they're doing marriage, whether it's the people you know or social media. Um, you know, not trying to, you know, point anybody out, but my my son and I were talking about um some reality stars last night and how um you know they yes, they made their money, but their content have damaged so many young people, you know, because of what you know what they've poured into them. And yes, we all had a decision to, you know, to decide whether or not we're gonna consume that content, but the effect is they did. And so that has become, you know, such an unhealthy, unhealthy crowd. So, you know, my hope is that you and I are creating platforms where, you know, we can kind of change that narrative and give people some new information that they can work with. Um so uh so uh do you think that um do you think we always recognize when our expectations are unrealistic or unspoken or create.
SPEAKER_00No, because our our norm is our norm. Like like what we our worldview is our worldview, our past experiences are true to who we are, and that that perception is our reality. And so I think one of the most healthy things that my husband and I have learned to do um is to constantly be self-aware. Like, where is this expectation coming from? And am I expecting him to meet a need that really is met when I travel? Yes, yes. Am I expecting him to meet a need that's really met when uh my business is flourishing?
SPEAKER_02Wow, yes.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah. Um, and and this is a big one for me and many people, I'm sure. Am I expecting him to meet a social need when really I need to go out with my girls? I need to go to dinner with them, I need to go do a yoga class, I need to simply get on a group chat, a phone call. Yeah, because I'm expecting something from my husband that he may not have the capacity to give me. However, because I'm with him all the time and because he's the person I come home to, right? Um, I to kind of put his needs to the side and say, Oh, no, I need you present right now. When really that man needs to go somewhere and be refreshed, be renewed, sit on the porch or whatever it is that he does, and then we can come back together later.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00And in the meantime, guess what? That's what I was talking about with the individual life. I'm going in a room and I'm a I'm a bench flizz on been uh binge watch Netflix. Or you know what, let me get on Marco Polo and send so and so video and update her.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So sometimes the needs that we're fulfilling, we're trying to get them to fulfill. It's impossible. And we just need to to have a more fulfilled life on our on our own, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01Because God created us to be more than just more than a wife.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_01You know, there's so much that He's poured on the inside of us to, you know, to create and and put out into this world. And that was the whole idea behind my, you know, my whole new um becoming her coaching experience for women, because I said there's a there's way too many women that um that are finding themselves in the place where they're unfulfilled. There's so much resentment in within their marriage, and they're resenting their husband who they're simply not capable or have the the capacity to show up in that way. You know, listen, the fun that we had at our retreat, my husband could never see a thing about it to me.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I love it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's just not possible. He can't he can't give me that. And as much as I are, you know, humanized, we could probably talk about anything. We can talk about shoes, politics, whatever. But there's still a a part of my soul that desire to be around women who are, you know, even even if we're not, even if we don't have the same vision, we just sitting there hearing your successes just feeds me. Exactly. So chilling. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah, yeah. So I I love that. And you know, I think sometimes um there's a fear of having um, you know, having my own desires, you know, because some people look at that as, well, wait a minute now, you you know, that means you're stepping outside of your marriage in a certain way. You're um you know your husband gotta approve of that, or you're gonna talk a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I yeah, that's good. That's that's a good point. And I think I know I certainly run a risk sometimes with my individuality, but I also know my limits and I also trust myself.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And because I trust myself and I know my limits, I could communicate that to my husband. However, that that that took a lot of work. You know, that is not an overnight process. Um, that took a lot of work, a lot of communication, and a lot of me being real about who I am to my husband. I'm just not the person that can just be up under you all day. I just, it's not me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I also know that it's not him. So however, we love being around each other. Yes. You know, we love when we get to sit down on the couch and watch CNN and talk about how crazy the world is or watch some crazy spy movie that takes place in another country. Um, we love to talk about real, you know, all things God and religion, but we don't do it all the time. We understand it's almost 16 years, so we're probably getting ready to come up on that 20-year, you know, that you're talking about, like, oh, wait a minute. Um, our first son leaves in four years. So that's just crazy to think about.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, once we hit 20, our first son will be leaving. And we'll have one son left. And so in the house. And so, yeah, it'll be another transition. But yeah, I just it takes a lot of work, y'all. Like it's marriage is not nothing about it is easy. It's forever changing. You're forever changing. But it is so beautiful when you can learn to accept each other for who you are, yeah, accept each other for who you are, accept each other for who you are.
SPEAKER_02Yes, you're yes, period.
SPEAKER_00And I know I'm not perfect. I will tell my husband every day, listen, I might have got this messed up. I might have messed that up. But here's what I'm gonna do to fix it. Or here's what here's what I need to work on with them myself. I am so good at that. And I think I'm not, I don't usually say I'm good at stuff, but I will say I am good at that. I'm good at that because I have worked on it. I have done the work to know who Ebony is, what Ebony needs, when she needs to get away. Yes. Yeah. And when she needs to be treated like a little, a little little girl. Yes. It's like, babe, I just need to lay on you right now. Like, can I just, you know? And I just go right there and I just lay down.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. And I and I've seen, I've witnessed that self-awareness in you. You know, even when, you know, we were applying stuff together. And uh I remember even being at the at the retreat, you know, uh this past spring. And you know, I remember there was a moment when you say, All right, guys, you you go do what you gotta do, because I know I need to go get some sleep. If I don't get some sleep, you know, and you know, I remember just realizing that, shoo, she said what she needed out loud. You know what I mean? And that's so that's so important because I think a lot of us um there's a certain level of fear, maybe, you know. I don't know if that's the right word, but I think there's a level of fear where we don't want to avoid what we need. It is India, yeah. Yeah, because maybe I'll lose that friend, or maybe, you know, in this case of marriage, you know, I'm gonna make my husband mad if I put out what I want. And so we drop these hints, and I can't stand hints, Lord knows I don't. Yes.
SPEAKER_00That is a whole conversation. Because they don't have the energy all the time. They who does? Nobody. Like, we we're too old for this. I sometimes I'm like, babe, if I don't do this or that, I'm gonna lose it. Like, yeah, I know I'm on the edge of burnout. I know I'm on the edge of this or the edge of that. And it's it's it's important to be able to say those things so that your partner knows how to navigate where you are. And then they can open up and say, but let me just tell you, I am also exhausted. I'm mentally, emotionally exhausted. And so if you have two people who are mentally, emotionally exhausted, not to mention physically exhausted, exhausted. That is a storm like waiting to happen. But if you know it, you can give each other space. Exactly. And you can come back together, you know, and give each other peace. But what I don't want to bring to you is a storm. I would rather bring peace. So let me let me go be refreshed and let me come back and then I'll be at peace. Hopefully, you'll be at peace. We'll both be emotionally regulated and we can move forward.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. I don't think people realize how important it is to um have that emotional regulation before going into those hard conversations or before voicing some of the things they want. Because if we're not careful, we will speak from a position of resentment or that position of annoyance. And it as you and I both know, the conversation will take on a whole nother tone. It will. No, he's not hearing what you're saying because all he sees is disrespect or all he sees the tone that you came off in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, again, and it's learning your partner. It's learning, it is learning the the cues and the little signs and the little signals, like, oh, I can tell he needs a minute.
SPEAKER_03Like he needed to say it, but he needs to make it.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. But yeah, that's that's um, that's really good. Um, and I know a lot of times, you know, we're again we talk about uh some of the uh unspoken, unrealistic accusations. A lot of that sometimes is rooted, like you said, in um experiences, our upbringing, family of origin, all of those things. Yeah. Now how do we get to that point of self-awareness where we say, you know what, I don't I don't want um I don't want to I don't want my marriage to look like my mom's or my dad's or you know my uncles or whoever, uh whatever whatever examples we had or like thereof, how do we how do we get to that point? You know, because I remember making the decision that I don't I I I mean, because Rob and I were both married before. With that being said, we didn't want the marriages we had. But we didn't know the marriage we needed. You know what I mean? Wow You know, it took us some time to the what's what was important for us was you know, we were in church, so we had the word of God to be our foundation on what our marriage was gonna look like. At the same time, we needed lived examples of what that was. So, you know, we gleaned from that, and over time we started writing our own story painting, our own picture. So I know a lot of people say, even those who are not believers, where are they going to learn what do we do next? You know, what would be some of their um first, how do you get to that point of self-awareness to say, hey, I we gotta figure it, figure this out. And then if God is not your source, how how are you doing that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. That's those are great questions. The first thing that comes to my mind around the self-awareness is simply being being able to name the emo emotion. Being able to name your emotions is almost like a confession. Yeah, it is a realization that I am human. I may be hurting, however, I may be excited, I may be hopeful. And guess what? I may be all three of those things at the same exact time. Because I may be excited about what's happening in my business, but I am I am disgusted about what happened in my family. I am happy about what's going on with my children, but I am not so hopeful about what's how my marriage is going right now. We can be all those things at the same time, but simply being able to name the emotions for ourselves and then to communicate those to our spouses is paramount.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's paramount. Um, we can easily do it with our kids. Like we can go to our kids and be like, you know what, I am so disappointed that after three times I told you to clean this room, you know, every day when you wake up and don't go out of the house with your room looking crazy and da-da-da-da-da. We can do that with our kids because we don't have that same level of fear. We don't, we're not worried about our kids rejecting us. For many of us, it's the it's the fear of rejection. It's the fear of if I open up and say, babe, this is not going well. I'm I'm fed up with this, like I'm I'm reaching my point of burnout with this situation. What can we do?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00We are afraid of what the answer might be. So we cannot be afraid of what happens after we name the emotion, after we communicate the emotion. And then that's when the work actually starts. Because again, once you open up, you're opening the door for your spouse to also say something.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00Right? Which is good. Yeah. Can I also say that we need to accept non-closure? Yeah. Accepting non-closure means we may go through a 30 minutes of a conversation around a topic. At the end of the 30 minutes, no miracle dropped out of heaven. It just didn't. It we're still in the same place we were 30 minutes ago. But what you just did though, yeah, was really you took the power from the enemy. Yes. You you to go in a spiritual, you know, you took the power from the enemy. You no longer have disclosed what you are feeling. You you're not holding that on your own. The beautiful thing about marriage, regardless of how tough it may be, is that you get to share with somebody else. Yes.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't think people too, we don't talk about that enough. We get to share every struggle. We we get to share every victory. We get to share all of these challenging moments with our children, with one day grandchildren. There will always be something. But guess what? You are not alone.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You are not alone.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I think that that that is beautiful, and it's something that we need to talk about more often.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Yeah. Because I think there's way too much emphasis being placed on all the struggles of marriage, the hardship of marriage. So it's and and I mean, yeah, those things are there and they're real because they can they can wreck a marriage. But they they you know, that's the the the good part. You know, that's the part that I I always say, um, I can't even imagine doing life without without you. It's it's like like, dude, you are my person.
SPEAKER_00Like, even if you work together, I still I'm still gonna call you. Like, I'm gonna call you. That because you're my friend. Yes. You're my friend.
SPEAKER_01Yes. I told someone recently, I said, even if Rob and I weren't married, I can still see him and I being friends, you know, because we we have so many things in common, and and that, you know, that might kind of minimize all of it so you know in a little bit. But it really does, you know, like dude, we can talk about anything. You know, the struggle, the the, you know, like you said, the victories, the the losses, the the rebounds. The losses, yeah, you know, all of those things. And so, yeah, being able to name your emotions and communicate that to your spouse, and that fear of rejection, I want to kind of hang up for a second because I remember that being the the um somewhat of a catalyst for me on how I communicated, and it really robbed me of of a lot in my like the first three or four years of my marriage because I was so afraid of um you know my husband rejecting me if I say something. So what I would do and and the here's the crazy thing, I would just shut down. I would just shut down. I just didn't say anything, didn't have the words, didn't have the capacity, didn't have the mental capacity to even formulate how I or or the language for that matter, to formulate the things that I want to say to him. And that led to so much distress, and he got to a point where he said, listen, we're gonna have to figure this out. You know, we're gonna have to figure this out. And it got to a point where it, you know, I remember him saying that um we're not gonna get past this, whatever this is. Because and of course, yeah, the fear of rejection was at the the core of it, but it affected our communication as you know in general, right. There would there's no marriage without communication.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_01That is definitely um that was so big for us as well. Oh my gosh, that is good. That is good. And so here's what I I always want to lead into um before we uh wrap up here was what were some of the conversations that you wish you had you had the opportunity to have before getting married? We all have that one thing that I wish I knew this before going into marriage.
SPEAKER_00You know, I think I think it would be around wealth planning. I think that financial struggles in a marriage are um statistically one of the the top reasons why couples don't make it. And let me be clear, I'm not talking about the amount of money that someone has. I am speaking about money management. I'm speaking about prioritizing, I'm speaking about what's urgent and what's not urgent, um, all things surrounding how we are good stewards over money and how we save money, how we learn to invest. If if there was a conversation I wish someone had with both of us, it would be how to navigate wealth and finances, especially when you're planning to have children, um, when you're planning to retire at a certain age, um, building wealth, not just, you know, spending every dollar you get.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00But let me tell you, let me give you a practical example of something that we recently learned. And of course, my mother um sold life insurance for over 30 years. Let me just say that. So I grew up surrounded by the word insurance. You know, she had her own agency and all that. She always talked kind of around us about life insurance. So not that I didn't know it was important. However, this year, we recently got our sons to universal life insurance policy so that when they become a certain age, they can pull cash from that investment and use it for a down payment on a house to start a business. I wish I had done that the day they were born. Because if I had done that, most likely they would have thousands and thousands of dollars already accumulated in the whole life insurance policy. It's called a UIL. Um, and I don't sell life insurance, but for those who who are interested, please do, you know, reach out. I know several amazing life insurance agents. However, I only brought that real life example up because that in itself could have created wealth for my sons earlier. Now we're working on it now, which is great. But what if we had done it when they were born?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So it's like little stuff like that around finances that I wish someone had said, nope, don't move into that house that's gonna cost you $2,500 a month, move into this two, three-bedroom apartment that's gonna cost you $1,700 until you saved up $20,000 or $30,000 or whatever it is, so that you're comfortable when you move.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah.
SPEAKER_00So those are that that's number one for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's and that's huge. That's huge. But even as you're um even as you're talking about the you know, the wealth building, it um it reminded me of all the different businesses that you have. Um and you know, again, you have all these different businesses going on, you're still a wife, you still, you know, and not just any of y'all, she's the wife of a pastor. So what we're talking about a pastor's wife is not just, you know, you're you're not just a wife, you're the first lady of a whole church. Yes. You know, you're not just setting examples for your kids, you're setting examples for a whole slew of families. So I want you to share a little bit about how you navigate all of that. They, you know, the again, wife, ebony of the wife, ebony of the first lady, ebony of the business owner, ebony of the mom, you know, all of them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I think, you know, one thing that I realized very early on in marriage is that every season calls for something different. There have been times in my marriage when the kids were really small where I was able to work part-time and focus the other part of my time, you know, specifically on the kids. Or then if I was home, I would, if the baby sleep or, you know, minding their own business, I pull out my laptop and I start writing a chapter of my book. You know, I just have never been a person that waste time. Like I just, I'm I'm better at resting now. Like I'm really good at knowing when to sit down and kind of take time for myself. But I also am not good at like not making my time mean something.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Well.
SPEAKER_00You know, like I think again, time, you know, it's a it's a very valuable or the most valuable currency that we have. And so I always remember what is it that I need to focus on that in this season?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, and and and I do have multiple business ventures, but they're all under one LLC. And so, so some parts of that business get more of my attention in certain seasons than another. I know, for example, during holiday season, more of my products, like my dolls and things like that, are gonna sell. However, maybe in the summertime, I'm focused on something totally different. Um, so to answer your question, I think that all of us can benefit from seeking God and asking for direction, speaking to your spouse, you know, being in touch with yourself and saying, what is my plan for this season? I usually take the year and quarters. Quarter one, two, three, and four. Right now, we're we're we're hitting quarter two. We're in June. Can you believe that? No. In a minute, we're gonna hit we're gonna head into the third quarter of the year. Yeah. So, so my question over the summer is going to be, what am I doing in this next quarter?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00And that does include myself in terms of how much more do I need to be in the gym, working out, you know, eating better. Husband, are we going, are we planning a vacation for our 16th anniversary? Kids, one's going into high school, one's going into middle school. So for me, even just saying that out loud, that's a big transition year for my kids. I'm gonna need to be as present as I possibly can for them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So knowing what to focus on in which season, and then when to put things on the back burner, is I just think it's really important. And that is all that is that is the only way, by the grace of God, you know, that I'm able to manage being um right now. I work full-time and I also run my business. But you won't catch Ebony nowhere gossiping. You're not gonna catch her nowhere talking about somebody. Like, I just I don't have idle time to do stuff like that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, I just really focus all of my time on what I believe God is calling me to do. Of course, also while taking care of myself and resting and being more social, which I do through my sorority. So, like, that has been a blessing because every let me hear it is every time we move, I find a new group of sisters. Just automatically. So I think that that's one of God's blessings in my life.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's one of God's blessings in my life, and I do not take it for granted. Um, so yeah, so being able to manage it for me is really just prioritizing what is important in that season and then focusing on that.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Yeah. That is so awesome. So, so, so, so awesome. Um, so for right now, what in this season, what area of your business are you really focusing on that uh anything can help, you know, the women that are listening, you know, whether it's the of a new book, you know, you're like dolls. So, you know, you share whatever area of your business that you think that they would benefit from in this season right now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a great question. And and my answer to that is that always work behind the scenes. Um, people see me pop out with a retreat or pop out with, oh my God, a new doll, or pop out with a new workbook. Um, but they don't know that I spent the last 12 months working on that.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00Like, like that has been in my heart this whole, you know, the whole time. I've been ruminating, I've been using AI technology to organize it. I've been opening up my Google Doc and typing in it. Like I've been talking to friends, I've been surveying people. I have been so be prepared for what you're praying for. And honestly, the only way to be prepared for what you're praying for is to work towards it. See, many people think that preparing for what you pray for is you're sitting somewhere, you're you're you're only ruminating. You're this this dream is sitting in your heart. Um, but it is when you take the steps forward that God gives you the next step.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yes, 100%. Right? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Yeah. So I wrote the first workbooks and I learned this from that, and that gave me the seed for the next one.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, and then before you know it, you got a whole collection. And people look at it like, oh, if you have the collection, but like, you don't understand what I went through to get this. Like, like you don't understand that, like, I'm not wasting any time. I I cherish every moment of my life. And so I I think that our lives have to be directed towards a purpose. And honestly, those kinds of things keep depression away from you, right? Like they keep sadness and hopelessness away. When you're working on projects, you're working on planning something, you're writing something, you're working on your business. You are fueling your faith. You are constantly giving yourself, um, you're exercising your faith muscles when you do that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so that is all part of the preparation that that prepares you for the next thing. So if nothing else, again, work behind the scenes when nobody else is looking, you are doing the research, the work, contacting vendors. You're you're you're doing all the things that um that people won't see when your product hits.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00They only see the product.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm gonna um highlight something you just said your life should always be directed to purpose. And I think sometimes that's what's missing. As wives, we think that that's our only purpose. And you know, when when when our life is not directed towards purpose, that's when there's room for resentment. That's where that's when there's room for for um, you know, the the bitterness and all the other things. Yeah. Resentment. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, yes. That that right there is um, yeah, I I'm I'm gonna, I'm um, that's a quote right there. Yes, our life should always be directed to purpose.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it should always, always. Because if because if not, we get lost.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00You know, we get lost in the midst of things that distract us when there's a whole world waiting on what you have. There is a whole, you know, generation of people who need what is inside of you, yet we become distracted with what's not right about our spouse or what we think needs to change with them. The whole time, God is like, but I called you though. I also called you though. Try it. I called you. Let's focus on that. Yeah. Let's focus on your healing. Let's focus on how you feel about that last move. Let's focus on what your future looks like. And I have been there, and let me tell you, I have done that. And every time, and I have been there, every time I become, I wouldn't say I've become hopeless, but every time I've I've gotten to those places of disappointment, one of the only things that saves me is my businesses, is my it's my purpose, it's the books that I need to write. It's the things that God has called me to create specifically for families and for young people. That fuels my fire and it refocuses me to realize that wherever you are in your life, it's just a moment. It's just a chapter in your book.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00Keep turning the pages, and you will find that God has. And listen, it doesn't matter how old you are, it doesn't matter how many years you've been married, or if you're not married. This is only a chapter in the book of your life. And God has so much more written that He wants you to read and He wants to write with you. He wants to write it with you. Isn't that amazing? Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01Like, let me grab my pen and get started. That was good to me. It was good to me. Listen, we can't, there's we can't even add anything. We can't even add anything to that. That was listen, and and I'll I'll I'll give you the floor. Anything that you want to um wrap this session with, that you, you know, you're like, hey, if you don't take away anything else from our conversation today, here's what I want you to walk away with.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, if you don't take anything else away, I just want you to realize how valuable you are. Um regardless of how you may be being treated, regardless of how you may not feel seen, regardless of what it used to be and it's not anymore, you know, regardless of how you may even feel about yourself right now. I've had to take so much time to work on myself personally. I had to get my body back in shape because it was affecting my self-esteem. I had to figure out how I want to present myself. Uh, what what clothes do I want to wear? How do I want to wear my hair? What matters to me? Right? Not like what someone else tells you you should look like, or you compare yourself to other people because they look like this or they sound like this or they're doing this. No, no, no, no, no. What I want you to take away with is the value that is within you because it is unique to you. And you know what makes you feel whole and you feel confident. Do that, just do that. And that is half the battle. When you are a whole person, a whole wife, you make your marriage better because you bring your full self to the situation. And though he may not be doing the same thing right now, that's neither here nor there. You be the example and you get your body right. You eat healthy, you take care of your spiritual life, you pull his hand and say, Let's pray today. You be the example. And if you can do that, you will you will see so much change happen around you. Um, because you will now be walking fully into who God um has created you to be, continuing to become you know his vessel to pour out all that value that is within you. So stop waiting on somebody else to do it, boo. They're not gonna do it. It's on you. It's on you.
SPEAKER_01That is so good. Oh my God. And with that, oh my God, I just want to say, Dr. Ebony Bell, my girl, thank you so much for being here today.
SPEAKER_00Welcome. You're welcome. This was good to me. It was it was great reminders for myself. Listen.
SPEAKER_01Yes, this is so, so good. As you are listening, listen, all of her information is gonna be in the show notes. Please reach out. Um, you know, get her dolls, get her books. They're available on Amazon, right? Yes. Um, yeah, you you know, follow her social media, um, her organization, how she does it network. Literally, how she literally how to do it, you know, literally. Of course, for those of you in the DC area, of course, go um spend a Sunday with them at their church. All that information will be again in the show notes. So, again, thank you so very much for joining me on another episode of the State of Our Union and the fight to keep it. See you next time. Bye.