The State of Our Union [And the fight to keep it]
A marriage podcast designed to encourage reconnection, through open dialogue about the topics that challenges most marriages.
The State of Our Union [And the fight to keep it]
Choosing US Everyday | Ayaka Honda
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In this conversation, our guest, Ayaka Honda, talked about the realities of marriage, overcoming challenges, and building a lasting partnership. exploring the importance of communication, expectations, and intentionality in marriage.
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Connect with Ayaka Honda
https://www.promosupplyhouse.com
Thanks for tuning in! If today’s EP resonated with you, subscribe, like, and share it with someone who needs it. Connect with me on all platforms @karenwillcoach - and if you are ready to go deeper, join the community and continue the conversation inside my Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/loveandconflict" Until next time, let’s continue to fight for our union.
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the State of Our Union and the Fight to Keep It. I am your host, Kieran Williams, author, speaker, and coach. And as if you are new here, um, just a little bit about me. I am married, been married for about 33 years this year. Well, 34 years this year. Don't let my husband know that I cannot remember how long we've been married. But we know mom, uh, mom, grandma, all the things, speaker, coach, all of that. I live here in Vegas, and today my guest is Ayaka Honda. And I am and listen, I am so excited to get into her story. She's gonna talk a little bit about marriage and some of the things that she has overcome to get to this point in her marriage. I hope you listen in, tune in, grab a friend, grab your coffee, and let's get started. Ayaka, I want to introduce you to the audience. Tell us a little bit about yourself.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, thank you for having me, Karen. I'm excited. This is my very first podcast. A podcast virgin. Um I am also um a Vegas resident. Um, not originally, but I consider it home now. Um I have been married for 12 years together with my husband for 16. Um, and we have four kids together.
SPEAKER_00Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, same, same. We have four children as well. I guess I can't really call them children anymore. They're all grown people. But yes, it is a pleasure to have you here. Um, and so this is season two of my podcast, The State of Our Union and the Fight to Keep It. But season two, I wanted to do uh just do things a little differently. All of season one was about couples who have actually gone through the process and gotten to the other side of it and teaching couples how to do it well. So this season, I said, this is her side of the union. What are some of the things that wives are actively doing that can help those other wives that you know may or may not know what to do or heard about what to do, not sure how to implement that. And I always know that we don't always have all the answers, but hey, once we gather a few women together, we can come up with something that we can actually activate for our life. And so we will dive right in. So during the application process, um you shared that it wasn't really a defining moment for for your marriage. You you did a couple of things. You actually decided to choose um being married daily, you honored your commitment, which led to a deeper level of love. So, can you talk a little bit about that? What does it look like to actually say choose marriage advice?
SPEAKER_03Gosh, um, you know, I think that in the busyness of life, and previously I've started working recently, but previously I was a stay-at-home mom for um 10 years, about 10 years. Um, and I think that I had really kind of started to get into this mode of fairness in marriage. And if I can truly be honest, I think you have to throw fairness out the window in terms of like nobody, each each of us are tired. It doesn't it doesn't serve anybody to claim I'm more tired than you or I'm putting in more work than you. It really instantly defeats the room, you know? It makes the other person feel defeated, like they're not doing enough. It makes you feel like you're entitled to some kind of award, reward, recognition, you know. Yes. Um, and it's hard to sort of in those early years let go of that ego that you have the answers.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Um, but I I love that word you said, um, not love it in the sense of I agree, but in the sense that we do have to let go of that fairness. But one, this is this is not high school. The world is not fair first. Let's establish that. Correct, yeah. World is not fair. But when we when we're talking about our spouse, this is our partner that we say we are gonna show up for for the rest of our life. We made that commitment, we decided we were gonna have a whole wedding around it and celebrate the whole thing itself. Yeah. So we made that decision, and so in saying that, oh, um, you know, this is not fair, or you know, again, like you said, there's a level of entitlement there that I'm supposed to do something, and you know, you are not doing as if to say there is a scorecard that we are ticking off those little boxes. Well, you did laundry last week, I'm not doing it this week. Yes, you know, and the the thing is what that does, it doesn't it doesn't feed into the oneness that is the goal of every marriage. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think there's a learning curve to that. I don't think that, and I think when we live in a society where we have bought into the idea that the statistic of marriage, you know, like half of all marriages end in divorce, that we've bought into that statistic as an okay um alternative? Yes, absolutely. That like when it gets hard, that when it's not going your way, that when you're not having fun, that when it doesn't align with what you envisioned marriage to be, that you are just allowed to throw in the towel.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Outside of like very egregious things that you should absolutely leave a marriage for. Right. You have to have the just enough grit to say this is really hard. Yeah, it's a forever type of thing. And forever is we don't have forever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03No?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03When when in our lives do we have forever? Just even in aging, it's fleeting. Like this is like one of the only sort of things in life, like the family unit that you're like, I'm here for life.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03Everything else you can choose to pick and go. I'm gonna be a member here, I'm gonna be a member there. I've left here, I'm moving elsewhere, you know. Everything else is temporary. Um and so I think we have to be I I I wish that I had more mentors coming into marriage. Yes. Um, to really speak to the reality of you're uh year one, you are babies. You don't know what marriage is. You really truly don't know what marriage is. Absolutely. You know, I mean, you are two separate people trying to be become one. That takes time. That takes so time. And I'm still in that.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yeah, you know, it takes time, it takes effort, it takes energy, you know, emotional energy. Um, and some there's some days when you you don't have the emotional bandwidth to even accommodate another person. But yes, this is the commitment that you made. And to speak on the the point that you made, we're all babies coming into this, you know. Yeah, you know, some some will say, Um, well, Karen, you and you and Rob have been married for 34 years. How you know you guys must really have it all together. You must have done something right. They the one when we did our original episode, my husband and I sat down and we talked through and you know, introduced ourselves to the audience, and some of the things we talked about was the things that the the challenges that we faced coming in. I came from marriage, you know, with uh one son, he came with two with two children, and we have one together. Now you talk about a blended family. Yeah, those children have their own mom, right? My son's own father. So there's, you know, having that whole dynamic and the blending and all of that. And I always give, you know, whenever I get the opportunity, I always give a shout-out to my husband's ex-wife. We've never had any issues in in the sense of how we blended the family. We were always in agreement with what was best for the children, always. And I always give a shout-out to them because that is always um, you know, that's a lot of people said that's unheard of. But one of the things that um one of the things that we had decided from the beginning is okay, we didn't want what didn't work in our in our other marriage. Now we know what we didn't want, but we had no idea what we actually wanted. So that began the journey for for the both of us. You know, for us, we we decided that, okay, we are going to um watch healthy marriages. How we, you know, not necessarily you said the word mentor earlier. Um and those people were our mentors, they just didn't know it. And so we watched how they interacted with each other. You know, the marriages that we saw, um, you know, where wives really put their husbands down when they're not there, the things that these husbands were saying about their wives when she wasn't present, we said, okay, we're not doing that. Now we didn't involve any people's lives. We just watched the people that we needed to emulate, you know? Yeah, absolutely. And I think we going forward, we have to uh you know, one of the things that I do want younger couples to walk away with, if nothing else, is your marriage is not the exception. You're going to have those same difficulties. You know, you're gonna have those same difficulties. And so um, you talked about um you touched on expectations for a little bit. And so I really I always want to have the conversation about because we always go into marriage with some expectations, whether we say them or not. And though the ones we don't say are what they call the unspoken expectations, are the ones that I always like to explore. So, what were some of your um unspoken expectations going into marriage? Some of the things that you expected from him, what you expected marriage to be to look like. Talk a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_03Gosh. I think in my naive, very early married life that the getting married was the finish line. You know, like we made it here. We both chose to be here. In the back of my mind, I knew like it was gonna be work. But I I had always been the mindset like we both chose this, we both really wanted to be married in that early stage where like we are just so in love, we just can't wait to get married and just start our lives, and it's gonna be easy, you know. Um and then when that first, you know, difficulty hits, you're just like, whoa, right? Um I think that I would be thanked for every little thing that I was doing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Or that it would be recognized. Yeah, I'm a huge and this all goes down to like whatever what is your love language too? You know?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like I love to be affirmed that I'm doing an amazing job. Like so if he didn't notice something, just really and I didn't I think initially I didn't have the capacity to phrase it in a way that didn't um irritate the both of us. Like I I'm I'm I just turned 42 and I there are some times where I'm like, I am getting in my own way. I am annoying myself at the things that I get annoyed about. You know? And I'm like, how do I grow myself in a way where I just gotta not be get get so annoyed about things? Then you think about like you know, you do you you do lay some kind of expectations from what you saw growing up too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know? Um and my mom and I are extremely alike. Our birthdays are very close together and our personalities are very, very similar. And and not in the best best way, you know. Uh there was a lot of appeasing that was done in my parents' marriage where my mom would like kind of throw a fit about something because it didn't go the way she wanted it. And my dad is such an even keeled, it's not a big deal. He really never showed anger except for a very few rare times, you know, that it upset him. Maybe as a kid, I just didn't clock either that they had arguments.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I really, really never saw it. And so I think that going into marriage, I thought if I go into a very like base, you know, kid like I'm throwing a fit about something, that he would be like, Oh, okay, you don't like that, we'll do it your way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I think early on he was like, Okay, whatever, I love you, okay. It doesn't but as he grew frustrated about the way I would handle things, he too would start to kind of fight back on that. Yeah. That I wasn't used to. I was like, wait, my dad didn't do that. Yeah. You know. That wasn't my dad. My dad'd be like, okay, fine, we do it your way. Yeah. And so figuring out personalities, and that you know, they often talk about like you marry someone like your father, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Or like someone totally not your father based on how you grew up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. We do bring in, um, we do bring in the the the what is it, the the characteristics and the the the learning styles and the attachments and the love language. You bring all of those things from our, you know, the way we were raised into our marriage. Why? Even when we say things like, I will never be like my dad, I'll never be like my mom, we don't have different information to work on. So our as you know, we are our our newer path is like, oh, this is what I know, this is this is the direction we're gonna go.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We take that same um behavior or mindset into marriage. Again, I threw a fit when I was four, and my dad always does what he what I want him to do. So why wouldn't I not do it over here? First of all, I don't even know anything different. You know, that's the thing. I don't know anything different. So let me see if this works. The thing with that is um, you know, I think as as um as adults, what we and what ends up happening in marriage is we don't have the language that we need to eventually ask for what we actually need. And so the uns those unspoken expectation, that's why we call them unspoken, because we go into marriage, they are expectations because I expect you to love me a certain way, but I don't even know how to ask you for that. Yeah, and so you know, one episode that I that I recorded earlier, we were talking about how we handle conflict. My go-to for conflict was I don't speak to you for about three days. I'm done, I'm shut down. We're not having this conversation. And my husband's looking at me because he's he's the engineer. So my his mindset is about this. We want to fix something, we got to get to a solution, right? Yeah, and so I'm shutting down the whole conversation for the next three days because I have nothing to say. But it wasn't just it wasn't just that. I didn't have something to say, I didn't know how to say it. And that definitely got in the way of how we connected and how we communicated, you know, in that early age. My guest on the show, she said she was done for about a week. She didn't speak for about a week. I said, okay, I wasn't that bad. But again, it's how we we come into marriage with the expectations from you know childhood and you know, previous relationship, uh relationships instead of having the conversation with our current.
SPEAKER_03I feel like also there's just a lot of noise right now with social media and a lot of um maybe both qualified and unqualified people um modeling like this is what should be happening. There's a lot of like husband and wife couples who have active social media channels that um, you know, model certain things based on what's worked or what's not worked for them, rooted in maybe some kind of ideology, um, whether that's religion or you know, uh some other, you know. Um but it can get very um it can get loud. Yes, yes. There are certain things that you hear that you're like, yes, that resonates with me. Whether or not that's right, whether or not that's actually good for your marriage, because it satisfies what you feel like isn't um just to you. If you're like, yes, that's and then you you send it to your husband, you know, you shared the reel with your husband, like, see, this is what what this is what a good marriage looks like. Yeah, you could you could be totally off because you just don't even know it.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_03So it's dangerous. That part of it, I think, is really dangerous.
SPEAKER_00It is, it really is. And what the that's part of the reason for this podcast, because uh, you know, in the beginning um last season, I told the audience that yes, we've been married for over three decades. We have seen a lot of different um seasons in marriage. And we're just happy, we're not just married on the for calendar days, we're actually happy. We we are enjoying this season of our lives, we are enjoying our grandkids, we're enjoying going to visit our children. Uh, one actually lives outside the country, so that's even more fun, you know. But we we're enjoying this new season of our life. And the reason that we can do that is because we built that coming in. We built that over the decades. We are our each other's best friends, and I do mean that in every sense of the word.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Um when when, you know, in the early stage we work through how we handle conflict. We didn't run, we, you know, stand ten toes deep and we we learned the skills that we needed to learn. We didn't just let things slide, you know, we had uh good conversations, we remained friends, we we could talk about and still can, any topic that that um, you know, whether it's politics, world, you know, you know, world issues, or just what's happening in our marriages between the two of us. But you talked about the noise, and that's one of the decisions we made early on that our marriage circle was gonna be very small. The influence, our marriage influences were gonna be very small. Um, of course, when we were younger, we didn't there was no social media, but again, we we looked at other marriages and decided that I don't like the way that person is treating that person. I wouldn't want to be treated that way, so I'm not gonna implement that in my marriage. And I didn't, you know, we didn't just hang around couples that were um only um saying the things that we wanted to hear, the things that tickled our ears. We did the difficult things, you know. My husband would go to the the men's conferences to learn how to be a good husband, a godly husband, a godly, you know, um father and those things. And I would do the same. And then we would do the, you know, we invest in, you know, in couples conferences where, you know, we couldn't afford therapy at those, you know, or counseling in those days. So we would go to conferences once a year to at least, you know, get taught on how we need to navigate marriage to where, you know, we we have a um a healthy relationship legacy left behind. And I don't know if there's a lot of couples that are trying to make that investment. I think a lot of it is um, I see certain people doing this, so let me try this. And so we we start missing, you know, where we need to be. But at the same at the same point is um, how how do I um you know, how do I focus on what's good for me? That's the whole idea of having these different guests on the show. Because the way you do marriage, it may be completely different than the way I do it. Absolutely. We're not talking about wrong or right, you know, it's the two. Determining what are your non-negotiables? Because I mean, for me, my my husband doesn't care if I cook or not. That's not important to him. But there's some spouses that no, we can't get married if you cannot if you don't know how to cook. That's important to them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and so a good marriage is not decided by whether I can cook or not, but it may be for you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I, you know, I stopped, um, I stopped doing, I've been very being been trying to be very mindful and stopped doing the comparison game.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Just in general, like where people are at in life, um, in a career sense, or what kind of house people are in, or what kind of extracurricular, you know, vacation stuff that people are able to do. Um, and how what what what um their marriage looks like. And I'm not saying like I don't see things in marriage that I'm like, that's awesome the way they are. It's more like I have to be um my husband's biggest advocate. Like he has his strengths, he has his weaknesses. Same for me too, you know? And I can't look at my friend's marriage and say, Well, he's just such a social butterfly. You know, like uh like you're like you're saying, every marriage is different. And so I think when I stopped doing the comparison game, I stopped putting labels on like what what love looks like, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes. That is that to me, that is like probably one of the most important pivotal moments of every good marriage. I truly believe that because now you're looking within, yeah, yeah. This is us right here. What is what is it that I'm grateful for that you know, you are my person. I am so grateful that for me I was able to uh I was a stay at home all for eight years. You know, the only way I could have done that is because you are here as you know the provider and you're not complaining about it. You're not making my life, you're not making me feel guilty for not going to work, or you're not, you know, you know, saying that I have to, or you know, one way or the other. Working was always optional for me. So it's that's so that's such a good point because I remember when we bought we bought our very first home in Maryland. Little 1200, I think it was about 1200 square feet. And I love my little house. I was so excited about I'm like, Well, I have to buy the house.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00And it was probably about a month later, we visit some we visited somebody else's house. Their house was probably about four or five thousand square foot. And I started, I came back to my little house and I was like, eh, when am I gonna buy that house? And you're like, girl, we just bought the house. What are you talking about? And that comparison and just just the house got me to a point where I said, Okay, I can't I I can't do this. Because that somebody I think the quote is comparison is the thief of all joy. Yes. And it really does steal your joy. You don't get to actually enjoy what you actually have.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, totally. I completely agree with that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um if I can touch on, you know, you saying I I was a stay-at-home mom for eight years, I never had to decide if that's if it work was not it was optional, right? If you wanted to go work. And that was that was my experience too. I think what I I think if I'm being very honest in reflecting back, um I think I put a lot of undue stress on myself. Um some sort of guilt maybe. And then I projected it onto him like he's a he don't he'd been adamant. He had told me it the words came out of his mouth. I don't care if you work or not. Right. In other conversations, though, we would say, Because I'm the only person working, there are certain limitations as to what we can do. And so when I would come to him with like, well, why aren't we doing this? Or you know, why can't we do this? It's like there's a limitation there. He's like, if you choose to work, then that opens more doors to be able to do some of those things. And so instead of reading that as what it is, just it's a it's math. It's math is what it is.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_03It's economics. Uh no, I I internalize that as I'm not doing enough or I'm lazy or ungrateful, you know. For so many years I would just internalize that.
SPEAKER_01That's okay.
SPEAKER_03Um and then somehow like twist it into like it's his fault or something. You know? And I I regret that because I think that was there was a lot of undue stress that I caused the both of us. Him ultimately, I think it led to him feeling like I'm not doing enough for her. She's not satisfied in some level, you know. And I hate that. I really do hate that. Um I'm glad that I'm in a place where I can say that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um so yeah, that's kind of where I'm at with that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I and I totally get it because um, you know, I had those moments to, you know, like you said, the the limitations, you know, the vacations that we couldn't take, the the, you know, the memories that I wanted to make for my kids, but but couldn't. And, you know, deciding that, hey, we wanted to trade that for our kids having a healthy, um, you know, because our homeschool too. So part of that was having a healthy, you know, home, home life, you know, healthy school and all that. You know, but it it it goes back to um again, we we we don't know. We don't know what we don't know. Yeah, you know, and it gets to a point where we have to take our past experiences, use it as data, and then forge forward. Okay, that's gonna work. Let me, you know, this uh these words invoke this type of emotion. Let me not do that, let me not say that, you know, being honest with each other. And so that kind of leads me into um, you know, the communication, because that's always a, you know, a challenging thing for, you know, for marriages, especially young marriages, you know, how we communicate with each other, how do we leave each other feeling once we're done communicating? You know, because my you know, my little communication framework that I work with clients on is hey, always establish a, you know, an outcome. What's the outcome of this conversation? What is it that I want them to, you know, to get out of it? Do I want to convince them of something? Am I just venting? Or am I looking for an uh, you know, some type of action? And so once we determine that, we can usually, you know, forge through a healthy, you know, a healthy exchange. But a lot of times we go into the conversation with an expectation, not necessarily an outcome. We expect something to happen and it doesn't, it goes left, you know. Can you speak some of those early, you know, communication expectations that you had?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um I think I'm such a uh for me, I do a lot of internal thinking. I do this with not just my husband, but with my friends, and uh I end up making a lot of I just have full-blown conversations in my head. You know what I mean? It's a whole person living in there. It's a whole person living in there. My husband is living in here, and he's already answered the conversation I'm about to have with him. And so when the conversation doesn't go the way my head has answer, I'm left feeling like, um, that wasn't that wasn't it. Let's beat it, beat the dead horse until I that's my that's been probably my problem. I'm so stuck that I'm like, no, no, no, this is not the way that this conversation was meant to go. You were supposed to understand my gr understand my grievance. Right. You know? He's just like sometimes he's just like, but that's not the way I feel. I'm like, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And we are, I am a um, I am a Taurus, he is a cancer, and so he's just kind of like, Yeah, let's just you know, it's cool, it's whatever, right? And I'm just like, it's not cool. Um I told this is so I hate to even admit it, but this is so damaging. And I don't know what it is about a learned experience or just the way my my brain operates. But oftentimes in like a real fight, if I don't get a similarly expressed, if I'm angry about something, if I don't get that same angry energy from somebody, from my husband, if he's not fighting back in the same way, I somehow in my brain compute it as he is not feeling as passionate as I am about it, or he doesn't care. Yep. I don't know why my brain leaps to that. And I've told him, I said, I don't know why, but I want you to get angry too. He's like, So that's what you want from me for both of us to get angry and what, not be able to resolve anything. It doesn't make any kind of sense. It makes zero sense in that moment though. I'm like, Yes, yes, that's what I need. Yeah. And like when it and it infuriates me even more when he's like, Well, I'm not gonna go there.
SPEAKER_00I don't, you know. Yeah. I'm not gonna go there. Somebody have to maintain the peace around here.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes. And I'm hoping that like in my sort of age and wisdom, like I really truly pray for this is this is probably my my biggest prayer uh all time is just like soften my heart. Yeah, that I don't have this need to feel right or can convinced that I've convinced somebody else, like this is my point of view, and you really, really, really see it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, and that goes back to like entitlement that I somehow I feel entitled for you to truly inside and out understand and validate my feelings.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. In the same sense, not realizing that our our husbands, they also need their feelings validated, they also need that, they also need to know that what they're feeling is legit. It's it's it's hey, I I they need to hear that as well. There's this in uh Proverbs 4 23, it says, guard your heart with all diligence, because out of it flows the issues of life. And I think regardless of what religion you are, that can resonate because everything, all of who we are coming, it's coming out of here. It's coming from the inside out. And so if we're guarding our hearts, we are watching what we say, how we say it, you know, what's coming in, how we're, you know, what's actually influencing what we say and how we say it to our spouse. And I always remind couples that uh, because I had to get there, but this is this is your best friend.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00This is your person, this is your advocate, and if this is the person that we say nowadays, that's my emergency contact. That's the person that will show up for me in whatever situation it is, and so they deserve the best of me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, when I show up and start talking, does what is what I'm saying hurting or harming you know, their feelings or their emotions, or are they being validated? Are they feeling you know, amazing when they walk away from me, or do they feel depleted and just unaccepted or you know, whatever that negative positive feeling is? How do how do I leave them feeling? Yes, you know, yeah, and I don't think we think about that enough.
SPEAKER_03No, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think I have those moments sometimes, I have to go back and I said, um, I didn't mean to say, because I know what's in my own heart, whether he took it that way or not. Yeah, you know, I know what I was feeling. I want, I wanted to, I'm in a hurry and I don't have time to talk about whatever it is you're trying to talk about.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I will go back and I said, Hey, I didn't mean to dismiss you, you know, like that. My bad. And he's like, Oh, you're fine. I I wasn't even thinking about that. And most of the time he's not, but I know what's in here, you know. And in those moments, um, you know, speaking of the topic of communication, I know when I know when I've done him wrong. And so I would hope that whether or not our spouses take it as us as being wrong, that we will still own it and go back to them. You know, apologize quickly if you know you've said or done something to harm your spouse. Do it, do it quickly. Don't wait around for three, four days because it festers and it grows into something else.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. No, I agree with that. I do think that like um, so my youngest is we had kids like back to back. So our kids are almost 12, 10, almost nine, and six. So we were just this last 10 years has been babies, babies, babies. Um and I struggled with postpartum. Um it was just a lot. It was a it was a lot. Motherhood was way, way more challenging than I ever expected it to be. Um, I think on top of that, staying at home, my husband is in law enforcement and he's never had up until very recently, he's never had a schedule that was um set in stone. Like, you know, every three months. Yeah, every three months he'd be like, Well, I'm on graveyards uh Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And then, you know, like as a stay-at-home mom, before the kids were like before the kids had gone to school, it was like, okay, well, the weeks don't really like the weeks and the weekends don't really have any kind of meaning to me. It's right, right. It's a schedule then becomes our weekend, right? However that however that worked. Then we like added in the element of now the kids are in school, so it's like a Monday through Friday situation, activities on Saturdays, and so I think we were so and we don't have any family support around here, you know? Um, so that we don't have like a support system to say, hey, can I drop off these two kids to you? Cause I gotta get over here and he's working graveyards, and I I think we were just so lost in the busyness of our lives that we quite distant. Um, and now that my youngest is in kindergarten, we have a little bit more breathing room and it's palpable. We can feel that. Um, and the kids are just a little bit more independent. Um and I think we're getting a little bit better sleep generally. You know, you'd be surprised at just how much lack of sleep will lead to that quick argument about why is why why didn't the dishwasher get unloaded? You know?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Like all those things. Um and so I'm I'm really excited about kind of this next chapter of like the kids becoming teenagers, like you know. Um but we're still we're such we're such a work in progress style.
SPEAKER_00It's and I think every I think every marriage, um I think every marriage it is because I I me I um I measure the years in seasons, not just 12 off periods. You know what I mean? Yeah, plus there was a there was a military season because I was I was active duty. Um so we've moved. That's part of the reason why I got out. We were moving too many times. Our children have roots anywhere. One was born in another country, one was born in some other parts of the world. And you know, so it we we didn't have that at roots. I did have my mom because so we can have she played such an uh intricate role in you know my kids growing up. But um that was that was our life. That was, you know, that period of uh you know, child rearing, and uh I always thought, okay, can't wait for the teenagers. Well, guess what? It that came with its own challenges.
SPEAKER_02Yes, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But one of the things that we were always adamant about is our relationship, our friendship. You know, we take the time out and we explain to our kids, listen, we're gonna do a date night. We have a basement, we're gonna watch a movie, you guys go to bed, you know, go play, whatever, whatever you do. This is just our little time here. Because again, being a uh you know, a homeschool mom, you know, I was with them literally from the moment they wake up, still they go to bed all the time. Yes. So we we had to be intentional about picking time or setting time for you know for each other. It was great because we did have mom where they could, you know, fly unaccompanied minor to Florida and just be with mom for the summer. So that was we had that that that space. But I noticed that had we not been intentional about it, the time would have just kept marching on and the kids would have been grown and we wouldn't have known who this other person is sitting on the couch.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I think um I think it's become even more difficult just in the last 10 years. I've noticed how much more dependent both my husband and on the world is on our phones.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, and you really, really like, I almost have thought about like doing some kind of like unplug from your phone retreat. Like because it's that serious. It really is because I'm stuck on this thing. Yeah, I am stuck on it. Um I'd be the first to admit, like, I don't drink. Um, I don't have very many vices, like I'm I'm pretty diligent about making sure that I work out. Um but this is an addiction a hundred percent. And yeah, it does take us away from each other, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And that's where the intentionality comes back because what I am doing on my phone is I've set um I set timers. Yeah. So any, of course, any app that that you know that takes away my focus, I have a timer on it. And when that thing shuts down, okay, it shuts down. And then I just move to doing other things. So we again it goes back to the intentionality. Can we um intentionally set time, you know, for each other? Because the world, I think the the world is always going to pull from us, you know, and we have to make that decision to say, okay, no, I nope, I'm cut that uh not everything needs my attention. That's my new mantra.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I love that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. All right, so one of the things you you also talked about on your application was um, I wanted to know what were some of the things that you, you know, you thought was responsible for uh your marriage longevity, and what can you speak to longevity? And I love what you said about um validating your spouse's hurts, you know, taking accountability, admitting when you're Wrong. And I know I'll be the first one to say taking accountability doesn't feel all nice and pushy. So can you talk a little bit about what that looks like? You know, say taking accountability. And you know, because I think accountability breeds safety. It allows our spouse to be able to come back to us at a set another time and share their grievance or raise, you know, difficult, um, difficult topics. So what what does that look like for you?
SPEAKER_03Um, I think it's partly you have to put down your ego that like there is only one way to do things. Um, and that as much as we are a my husband and I are a unit, he has and has a right to how he feels about the way things happened or you know, transpired.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03Um I think as a woman, I am so uh transparent with like this made me feel this way. We're so used to talking about our feelings. It's not necessarily that way with my husband. Um and so on those kind of more rare occasions when we're just like the two of us, the kids are sleeping and we get into like a deeper conversation. I find myself just listening. And honoring that, you know, like that I don't have to interject, like, well, this is how I interpret that, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um because he's not much of a he has a lot to say, but like about a lot of other things, not necessarily his feelings. Um so I just like kind of relish and like try to slow it down, you know, like I really try to be like, let's slow it down. I'm just gonna digest what you're telling me, you know. And I think even me just saying yeah, like as he's talking, just being like, Yeah, agree, or you know, like it doesn't have to be super wordy.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03Him to feel like, okay, I can tell my wife all of these things and and it can just be that way, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, not necessarily looking for a solution. I just wanna talk, I just wanna get this out, you know. But I I get it, you know, be especially being in law enforcement, he has to be on all the time, you know. Yeah, you know, and so being home is that place where he doesn't have to be on, he doesn't have to, you know, you know, what I say, the adrenaline running or you know, flowing all the time. Absolutely. When they slow down and just, you know, relax in the moment, relax in the relationship, relax in the safety, you know, of it. Because I always say the way that you and I react to a um a concern when it's raised, it sends the message to our spouse whether or not they are safe enough to raise another issue. Because when the shutdown happens, or that's when the you know, the the comfort, what if it's comfortability um shows up. I am comfortable with my wife to talk about this. Or I will never bring that up again, you know. So we're sending that message one way or the other based on how we react. And so when we are welcoming, that opens up that um, you know, that door. Um man, this time really goes by so fast, and I think every every single podcast. But I know as you know, as I I think I really think that, especially as wives, um, wives that are you know business owners are now in you know the corporate space, we think a lot of the things that we've learned from marriage, you know, whether it's uh accountability, whether it's um, you know, healthy communication, and we take those same characteristics into business. So tell me how you marry the two. How how does you know how you show up as a wife and say manager of the home, how do you translate all of that into your business and how how does how do you marry the two?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so uh I've like just recently entered back into the workforce. And when I um when my youngest had gone into kindergarten, I said, you know what, when he starts kindergarten, I really don't want to do anything for the first however many months. I said, I have been a stay-at-home mom. Um, I just want to be chill, just chill and have the opportunity to have a silent house. And I did that and I loved it. Um I remember praying and I said, I just want a job that's not gonna blow up my entire life, that gives me joy, that I wanna show up excited about every day, and that they value that I have four kids at home, a husband who works 12-hour days. I mean, my laundry list was long. Give me the perfect situation that they're like flexible about, yeah, if you need to go pick up your kids, or yeah, you can only work until this time because you got to go pick up your kids. I was like, I don't know if that exists. I don't, I prayed on it, waited, waited, waited, waited, and then something just like honestly landed in my lap. Um, and so now I um and it's kind of just like grown very organically into this amazing position. Um, I work for Promo Supply House, or branded merchandise and promotional marketing company. They are a woman-owned, veteran operated um small business.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And um we we work out of their home for right now. They're trying to move into an office. But what's interesting is that it's usually it's just the three of us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03My boss, Dane, his wife Sahara. They kind of operate different sides of the business. Okay. And I see marriage at play every day. I was just gonna say, yeah, I can and I've even said to them, I commend you guys because I've because I see it's not even quarrels. It's just kind of like they're operating in like, okay, we needed to get this done. You know, I talked about having this part done. Um, what happened to that? You dropped the ball. And they're they're just so they're able to communicate not aggressively, but firmly. You know? Um, and then be able to put that down at the end of the day and say, well, yeah, we're best friends. We love each other. But there's a a a way to operate during business hours too, you know? Um so I get to kind of see that dynamic play out. Um, and I work more closely with Dane, and he's like, You're not my wife, but there's a lot of like, we need to have a rapport where we can be able to tell each other exactly what's on our minds. If I do something to offend you, if I do something that's not helpful, uh likewise, I want to be able to tell you, like, hey, this isn't this whatever happened here does isn't working. And I'm just so grateful for that because I'm like, there's a certain amount of separation that I I have that I'm lucky to have because I'm I'm I work for them, I'm employed by them, they've become what I consider to be friends. But I also get to say, okay, I'm done for the day and I'm leaving. You know?
SPEAKER_00I get to walk away from it all. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Um, and so what's been interesting, really, really interesting, is that um I've tried not to hold back. Because I think it benefits everybody to be able to say, you know, hey, I have this need in order to perform better here at work. And it's it's usually like, okay, we'll show up for you in that way. That doesn't always happen instantly in marriage. Whether because there's a limitation there or because the other person hasn't grown to a place where they can give it.
SPEAKER_00Accommodate that, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And so what's interesting is like you can apply like uh it's k it's kind of giving me a a backbone both professionally and then in my marriage to be like, you know what, these same um the way I operate there, I can operate here too. Yeah, effectively, uh kindly and be able to meet everybody's needs, right? Because I think like my personality has always been like just bury it. If you feel wronged, if you feel slighted, if you that bearing has always led to me feeling like some kind of internal thought about myself. Yeah, enough, not being this enough. This is such a it's a clean slate. It's a clean slate for me to just be in my own strength. Um and I think it's just it's it's compounding on itself and I love sort of the the version of myself that's that's um growing has always been there that maybe I just never had the the confidence for. Um yeah. And I wanna I hopefully wanna say that like you know, because working out of their house, just the two of them, that can feel isolating too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03Like they're like, yes, they love each other, yes, they're their best friends, but also if you're only just seeing each other and that's your work, and so you're not your office and your house, I think there is a part of them that enjoys my company being there too, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, add to the dynamic, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, great.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Last last season I had the opportunity to to um interview one couple. Well, I never say interview, had a discussion with one other couple. They run a business together out of um Orange County, and that's one of the questions I always have, you know, for them. Always, whatever audience it is, I've had them on panels that say, Hey, talk to folks about how to actually run your marriage in a business all at the same time. When do you take your hat off and say, honey, thank you for doing this, thank you for showing up, versus, hey, Greg, I need you to show up this way. You know, I need this, I need this report. I, you know, that boss hat. How do you, you know, go between the two and leave the work emotions at work and the marriage emotions at home? And that's always a um, that's always a fun conversation because I I told my husband from day one, babe, I love you, but I can not work with you. No way, it's just not happening. No way. No, because he was he is so meticulous sometimes that it just oh, okay. I love you and I love that you're in my life. Obviously, I need that because I am I am that person where every idea that jumped in my head, I think I need to get on it right now and I need to do it right now. I don't look at the pros and cons and all of that, but I need a lot.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. You're just like, I'm doing it.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I just jump off, jump off the cliff. And on the way down, it's like, oh shoot, I didn't think of that, I didn't think of that, I didn't think of that. But that's what I really believe that's what God has put him in my life for. He is such a stabilizer that says, okay, before we do that, let's consider this and this and this and this. And of course, over the decades, I've so learned to trust that wisdom and know that, hey, for one, it's not about me. He's not coming against me. What he's really doing is providing, um, providing that perspective that is um helping us to make what is it, calculated risk, you know, smart risk. It's still a risk, but we have basically considered all the possibilities, all the options before stepping out there. You know, and that is so to me, that's gold.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And I think that's truly part of like the beauty of marriage, yeah. Is that, you know, yeah, it is a choice, but I think it's almost kismet that the two of you, you know, w were brought together. Because I think about that and I'm like, man, like there are millions and millions of people out there. But even when I found in the circumstance that we found each other.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_03If you are if you have enough grace, if you have enough um ability to just let your guard down, let your ego go, that it will your qualities, his strengths, your strengths will kind of just go like this, I d it ideally, right? Yeah, yeah. That's what marriage is, that you're not competing for who is better. It's like you're better here. Yes. And I'm able to serve you in this way, and I'm able to serve you in that way, and that we just are like grateful for that because yeah, you can do it on your own, but man. Yeah, tough, that'd be tough, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I always say, Life is life is life is good on my own. I can do life on my own. Yeah, right. I can. I know how to do this, but it is so much cooler with him. So much cooler with him. And with that, I I will say, Um, uh, we'll wrap with this. Yeah. Uh give the audience one. I don't know if you can do it in one, but however many it takes. Um, what are what would you say is the top thing you wish somebody had said to you when before you got married or when you just got married to navigate your relationship? What would that be, that nugget that you leave your audience our audience with?
SPEAKER_03I would say that there are going to be times where you may not like your spouse, but you continue to love your spouse. And that's okay. It doesn't mean you failed. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with you, it doesn't mean there's something wrong with him. Um also just to get out of your own way. If you are too serious like I am, maybe lighten up a little bit. You know, if your husband is like for my husband, if he if if he is maybe too nonchalant about things, maybe he needs to, you know, shape up a little. You know, all of these things that you need to you need to be willing to to better yourself. Not just for you, but for your other person.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely, absolutely. So good, so good. Oh my gosh. I could thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thank you with me.
SPEAKER_00This has been such an amazing conversation. We went all over the place and I loved it. I so love it. All right, guys, thank you so much for joining us on another episode of the State of Our Union and the Fight to Keep It. Again, I am your host, Karen Williams, and I encourage you to subscribe, share this podcast with a friend. You know that one friend that keeps calling you about their marriage. That one. Share it with them and subscribe. Until next time, thank you so much for joining me on the state of our union and the fight to keep it.