The State of Our Union [And the fight to keep it]
A marriage podcast designed to encourage reconnection, through open dialogue about the topics that challenges most marriages.
The State of Our Union [And the fight to keep it]
How Intentional Couples Build Lasting Love | Raymond and Antionette Perry
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In this conversation, Raymond and Antionette Perry share the real work behind a thriving marriage, emphasizing that strong relationships are built through intention, boundaries, communication, and teamwork.
They discuss navigating seasons of grief, caregiving, financial stress, and family demands while protecting their time together through date nights, staycations, and meaningful connection. They stress the importance of seeking wise counsel, setting healthy limits, and not allowing outside voices or internet narratives to shape your marriage. Karen Williams highlights that successful marriages are not effortless, they require commitment, growth, and choosing each other repeatedly. The couple closes by reminding listeners to be each other’s biggest cheerleader, best friend, and partner, proving that love can deepen with time when both people are willing to invest in it.
Connect with Raymond and Antionette Perry:
- Lighthouse of Hope Worship Center YouTube channel: https://youtube.com/@lohwc?si=UQKiiT8sib-TwRGO
- A pause for me journal - https://a.co/d/0bgtdQbp
- Inspired to Live: A 30 Day Journal - https://a.co/d/06FbrFSj
- Strength Under Pressure journal - https://a.co/d/03Rms31L
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Thanks for tuning in! If today’s EP resonated with you, subscribe, like, and share it with someone who needs it. Connect with me on all platforms @karenwillcoach - and if you are ready to go deeper, join the community and continue the conversation inside my Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/loveandconflict" Until next time, let’s continue to fight for our union.
Hello, everyone. It is such an amazing day here in Las Vegas. And so I want to welcome you to another episode of The State of Our Union and the Fight to Keep It. My guests today are Raymond and Antony Perry, and they are out of Maryland. I'm so excited that they're here. They are pastors. They've been married forever. I can't remember. 30 something years. They're going to tell you for sure. But they have um such an amazing story, just how God has shown up, you know, to through so many different challenges. And they're going to lead you through that. And so to get this um kicked off today, we're going to let you both introduce yourself to our audience and tell them a little bit about yourselves.
SPEAKER_02Good evening, everybody. I am Antoinette Perry. Um, I am blessed to um pastor with my husband. He is the um senior pastor, and I am actually an educator by trade, um, an administrator in school, and we have been married forever.
SPEAKER_00And hello everybody. Uh, I'm Raymond. Um we have been married for actually 31 years. Um we have been pastoring for uh 10 years, get ready to celebrate 11 years, but we've been in ministry uh for almost 30 years. So it's 31, 30, and 10. So that's that's our numbers. And um I also work in education. I am a count school counselor, um, and I've been in the education field almost 25 years.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_01Wow, that's a lot of decades.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we've both been in education over 20-something years.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Cause I remember when we when we met, I know you were a principal at one of the um, might have been an elementary school at the time, um, Antoinette. And so even um, you know, when I met you then, I'm thinking, oh, God bless her. Because, you know, you know about, I mean, the school system and all the the challenges that goes on with that. But hey, we're not talking about the schools today. We're gonna we're gonna talk about you guys and what um, you know, some of the amazing things that, you know, God has done in, you know, in you guys' life. Um, as you know, this podcast is really aimed at that one couple that been married a little bit between, say, three to five years, and the honeymoon is on the other side of it. And so a lot of times the challenge there is, I don't know what to do. I think I married the wrong guy. We don't know how to talk to each other. How I don't even like him anymore. I don't like her anymore. So we want to make sure that those couples don't give up too early. They stay, you know, stay in there, have those hard conversations, and learn from those of us who've been married for a while. Um, Rob and I have been married 33, you'll be 34 years this year. And, you know, of course, you know, our audience that's been following us for a little bit, they know we have four children and five grandkids. And so we're, yeah, we've gone through those little, you know, those little rough patches to where we say, I don't know, should we, you know, you know, and you know, we were having a hard conversation uh before about, hey, did we ever got to a point where we were, you know, we were just done and you know, we got talked into stay. And although that wasn't, you know, that wasn't our our hard story, but I I'm very candid with the fact that when the kids were teenagers, I felt like I'm leaving you and your kids. I'm gonna go find me an apartment because I don't know what's going on right here. So I get it. It is it is a rough, rough season. So if you could share with the audience what was some of or probably the most recent for you guys, or during that period for you, what were some of those challenges that you guys, you know, faced and decided that, hey, we're gonna just lock in and and um and do this. Share with them what some of those um instances were.
SPEAKER_02Sure. So we um are parent, we we have three children. We are actually a blended family. We have what we call a his or hers and a ours. So he has a daughter, I have a daughter, and together we have a son. And then from that we have six grandchildren. Um, and I coming in our early um years, we had, I would have to say for us, we didn't have what we say model marriages, um, just being transparent. We had his grandmother. So we knew what we wanted and we knew what we did not want. And so actually, we we stayed away from what we saw happen in other marriages, and it's like, okay, we're not doing that. Um I would say that in our early years, communication was um a challenge and unspoken expectations.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, those two go into it, do it, so one of the things that, as my wife said, we again, the one marriage our family had was our grandparents. And so we looked at them and we always wondered, you know, how did they stay married? Um, they actually were married 67 years before my grandfather had passed. So that was the generational that we looked at and was like, wow, but everybody else, you know, they were having great relationships and then they would get divorced or they would be remarried. And so um when we looked at that, not what we wanted, I think that was one of our biggest talents. And so um, at first we had these, as we said, the unspoken expectations. We expected and that um, you know, we were gonna do the way uh pay bills the way that the world says we should pay them and everything was gonna be great. Um, but we had to be honest. I mean, we both came into this relationship with bills, we both came into this relationship with different spending habits. We both came into this relationship from a different um angle, and I think many times we forget that. You know, I I was a single man living on my own, and I knew survival versus my wife who came into the marriage. She was taking care of her daughter and her mom, and so she's coming into a different angle.
SPEAKER_01Right. Wow. Wow. Okay, so so much right there. Um, so you you refer to your your grandparents who had been married 67 years. Now you know the conversation around marriages from that era. Oh, she only stayed because she couldn't get a credit card on her own. She only stayed because she couldn't do this on her own, and all of the things. But based on your observation of your grandparents, what were some of the things that stuck out to you? Like the the day-to-day things that you saw them doing that you could say, Yes, I want to do that.
SPEAKER_00The one thing we knew about my grandparents and even my wife when she met them, they loved each other. There was never a doubt in our minds. So you have to, you gotta imagine, they got married as uh teenagers. And um they came through many decades. But the things that I loved about them was that one one of my favorite things is my grandfather did not believe in ardent. Um, he was the type of person he would let my grandmother get all her fussing out, but when he had had enough, he would just say, call her by her first name, and she knew at that point he's done with this conversation. And it was always amazing to us because you know we knew that from being with them. And the first time I remember my wife was there and um it happened, I was cracking up. And my wife was like, What are you laughing at? So we got in the car. I said, Did you realize they were arguing? And she was like, What? I was like, Yeah, they were really arguing, you had no clue.
SPEAKER_02And what that taught me, because I came from seeing relationships where all they did was argue. Um so watching grandmother and grandfather, and even when grandfather called her name, he called it with love and respect. It wasn't a yell. Yeah, and even when when he says to let grandmother fuss, she wasn't yelling. It was she was just getting a point across. So what she expressing herself. Right. Um, what that taught us, because when we got married, we had children. We came in with with children, so we didn't have a point, um, no children until now, we're empty nesters. Um, but learning from grandmother and grandfather is we did not argue in front of our children. So they may have, they could tell maybe with body language, because you know, children can pick up on it, but they cannot tell you that they heard mom and dad fuss and yelling and arguing because for us, it was our situation that we had to work out and not theirs.
SPEAKER_01Right, right, right. That is so true. Um, and you know, even having the conversation with our adult children, you know, I was talking to my son, and um, you know, he had, you know, you know, he actually flipped it on me. He said, Mom, I I kind of wish I heard you and dad arguing sometimes because I would have learned how to fight well. And I was like, Oh, didn't think about that because the thing is, it's not it's not that we figured out how to fight well. We just, okay, well, we don't know how to fight, so we're not gonna let them hear us fight. We don't know how to do it well. I think we learned how to do it well as we, you know, as we got older. But uh it's the same thing when I when because I I was uh married, we were both married before we got divorced and then we got married. Um but one of the things I had made the the decision that I don't want to do marriage the same way I did. Now, like you said, I didn't even know how to, I just know what I didn't want. And it's so important to, when you go in your marriage, not just go in with, I know what I don't want, but you we actually need some tangible tools to actually build our marriage from the ground up. Yes, you know, and social media and memes. Right.
SPEAKER_02That's correct. I know one of the right. I know one of the things I wish we had. Um, so like when when we when uh my husband proposed, I was actually a member of a church. I mean, and he was too, but I I was Pentecostal. Um, and so when he asked me to marry him, we went to our pastor just knowing we were gonna get marriage counseling um and all of that. And we had actually had two sessions. The first one, um, I felt like, oh my dear, they're trying to convince me not to get married because when I tell you they brought out everything negative about marriage, and I I later learned that they were just seeing had we thought it through. Um and then the second session was talk just talking about asking us what we were gonna do about the children and what church we were gonna join. So I always tell people, especially those who are engaged or those even who are um early on in their marriage, to have counseling is good and it is it's it's needed even after saying I do.
SPEAKER_01Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We we we're taking um, we're putting such a stigma on uh you know premarital coaching, therapy, counseling, whatever, whatever that type of uh relationship education is. Um we put such a stigma on it as if, oh, something must be wrong with my relationship if I'm seeking help. And that is so far from the truth. I think it's a you know, and listen, we're gonna go to church for a second, but it's a lie from the enemy that this is what is something wrong. Because at the end of the day, when we end up with without the tools, that's when things fall apart. That's when, you know, those disagreements come in. You talked about the communication and the unexpected, I mean the unspoken uh expectations. And that can be, you know, even you you guys say you were in different churches. That can even be an unspoken expectation. Well, I thought I was gonna go to your church, or I thought you were gonna come to my church. Right. Well, you didn't talk.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00And that's one of the things that we do when we um people come to us or asked about doing counseling, or they ask our opinion. And I'm a firm believer that there's nothing wrong with good counseling, but I think great counseling is important. And what's the difference? Good counseling can be like what we got. We got good counsel, but it wasn't great counseling. Great counseling should cause you to walk away with some homework, it should cause you to walk away and think about what did we just talk about? It's you know, um our biggest, one of our biggest challenges is that one, we're not asking you to tell us your business, but we are asking you to walk out of here and talk about this. Um so we try our best to talk about the things that no one ever talked to us about. What is and what are your spending habits? What's your credit like? Why did your credit get that way? What's your um what's your viewpoint on marriage even before we get into it? Um what's your viewpoint on children? What's your viewpoint on, you know, all of those things. Even now, one of our things if we talk about is what are your plans for um if something happens? Do you have things in place? Do you have insurance in place? Have you thought about that? I it's not an easy subject to talk about, but it's better to do it while you can talk about it than to do it when it's too late.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02And if I could, because the the teacher in me, the educator in me, always um want to give like practical tips. So some people say, but I don't know how to communicate. I didn't hear it, and my family all they did was argue. So, what is something that I could do? And there's something that we learned um and that we do, especially when you know you're not seeing eye to eye, but you don't want to start an argument. And so as we're talking, we've made um where we will say, like if Raimi says something to me, then when I say it back to him, okay, so what I hear you saying is that way I'm not blanking, I'm not pointing the finger at him, I'm sharing with him is what I just heard you say, and that gives the opportunity for him to say, nope, that's you know, that's that's not what I was saying. So it cuts down on the tension.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. The um what do they call that technique, the mirroring? And so that is that is definitely so important because a lot of times the way something comes out, or you know, again, in my because uh I know myself the best. When when we first got married, I was I was the one that would always um filter everything my husband said through my own insecurities. I will feel he was because he has always been that cut-through the chase guy, just bluntly say what he needed to say. And every question he asked, it gets filtered through that. And it's like, well, are you saying that? He's like, I never said that, but it comes off like that's what you're trying to say, you know, to the point I even said, I said, dude, when I talk to you, I always feel like an idiot because he questions everything, he asks details, and sometimes I don't know. That was our fight. That was our continuous, you know, going back and forth. And he's like, let me tell you, when I ask a question, the words that you hear, that's all I'm saying. There's no motive behind it. But the thing is, he had to go first and create that safe space for me to be able to say, all right, this is not what he means. He's not, you know, again, we are the same team. I remember, I think you guys used the word um collaborator or collaborators, um, you know, with your spouse. You're not enemies, you're not fighting against each other. And that is such a, you know, what I say, the couples need to know that. You know, that little underlying competition and that, you know, those um, you know, on you know, what is it, underlying aggression that we have against each other. We we gotta stop that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. And I know, um, like for me, I can like I said, I know myself best. I came in with a lot of baggage, one of them being that I did not trust. I had trouble trusting, not just trusting in general, but trusting men because of what I'd been through. So because I had trouble trusting because of what I've been through, I took it out on him. He hadn't done anything. Yeah. So again, one of you know, those unspoken expectations. So now I'm looking at him cross-eyed, you know, for something that you know, an ex did or the dad did or didn't do. And I'm looking at him, and he's like, Hold up, wait a minute. I I didn't do this. But what I thank God for is his patience. So he had to be patient, not just with Antoinette, his wife, but Antoinette, the one that was scarred.
SPEAKER_01Yes. So yes, yes, yes. Because I showed up with my own scars. And it goes back again. Listen, if if, you know, somebody asked me, um, what advice was I given um in my younger years that I had not listened to? And I said, if I had listened to my mama, I would have only been married one time. Because, you know, I'm like, oh, this, you know, he gotta be the guy, he must be the guy. And I, you know, because at 21, we know everything. You know, we're the smartest, you know, spoon in the drawer. And I remember, believe it or not, guys, I was walking down the aisle knowing that this is not what I should be doing. Wow, you know, I knew it. And I did it anyway. But what I would what I'm hoping for is as we sit down and have these conversations and create space for these conversations, that that one couple will hear this information and bring up the conversation, ask the question. As coaches, as counselors, or we don't try to fix things. We point out the areas that you better be having a conversation about.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_01You better be talking about this, you better be discussing this. I've had couples that call off their wedding after we get done working together because you said you had this much money and you got this much debt, and we lied about this, and you lied about that. Because you're gonna have a conversation with me. We're gonna talk about it. Yes, because you're gonna bring the credit, you're gonna bring that credit report to to our session. You guys gonna look at it, you're gonna know what each other, because I don't need to know, but that person sitting next to you needs to know, like you said earlier, what your spending habits are, what yours, for one, what your financial personality is like. Who's a spender, who's a hoarder, who's a saver, right? And that conversation needs to be happening because a lot of times those are the little things that gets in there and becomes the this the center of your con you know, your contention. And you don't even know. Why are we arguing? Well, because there's no money in the bank account, and we can't go out to dinner, and I can't buy this for the kids, and I don't think I'm a bad parent, and it rolls downhill.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that um was a big issue with us because we did have two different financial mindsets. Um, we're totally different people now, but the mindset was different because being a single mom, I my mindset was okay, I do pay my bills and I work hard. But then when I got tired, let me tell you something. What I would do is I'd go shopping and worry about the bills later. Okay. Um, and after we got married, the first time I did that, I brought my bags home. And he looked at it. He said, What happened? And I said, Well, I got tired. I worked hard. I went shopping. He said, Okay, let's get in the car, we're gonna go take all that back.
SPEAKER_01Listen, Raymond, I I think you and my husband had a conversation at some point, I don't know when, but I remember going back to the store with things. You know, his question is do you think that is the best use of our finances right now?
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01Hmm. You know, he's not saying no, you can't have those things. He's just asking the question and leave it up to me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that was a uh again, that was an unspoken expectation because again, I I was single and I was so I was a survivor. So when she met me, I was working three jobs because I refused to live the life that I had seen. Um I didn't want anybody taking anything from me. Um I I had to turn in a car, and I'll never forget how much that broke my heart, but it was the best wisdom for me at the moment because I had to decide keep a car to keep an uplook of what everybody thought or have an apartment. Well, I needed the apartment because I was on my own. So um I rode a bike for one year. Um, and I rode a bike from Dalmar to Salisbury. So let's say I'm riding about 30 to 45 minutes to work every day, and I did it faithfully. Um and then I bought myself a car, you know, and I did those things. So when we met, the bills were the most important because the one thing I told her, no one's taking anything from us. If we go get it and it comes to this house, then it stays. So let's not put ourselves in any financial situations where it can't stay. And don't force me to have to go take on another job if it's not something we've already chosen. Because then you've created a whole nother world. Because if you can't pay your bills with the income you have coming in, getting another job, you're still not gonna fix it. You're gonna find yourself, well, we got we got some extra money this week, so we're gonna and you're gonna continue the same habit. And that's what I didn't want. So um bills gotta be paid first, and then we can divvy up the rest. Again, I'm not saying she can't have it. The one thing my wife knows, I love for her to look wonderful, I love for her to enjoy life, but we gotta make sure these bills are paid.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02And if I could, um, two things that it early on in our marriage that dealt with um finances. One of them, and and I share this with and I hear mostly young ladies saying it, where they will order things or they'll do whatever, and then they'll say, But I hid it. He don't even know I did it. My thing is you're together. You're go there, go there. Yeah, if you have to hide it, that means you don't need it because you're going against a goal or something, an agreement that you had with your husband. So if you have to hike, it has to be a secret, then it shouldn't be. Um, that's something I I pull everything out, be like, look, this is what I did. But I do share that. Um but and then something else that that we had to come through. So although I'm not the oldest in my family, I am the one who took care of the family. And my husband will tell you, and I agree, that they knew my pay dates better than I knew my own. And so, you know, not only is it our household, now we have funding that's going to other households, which was hindering us from meeting our goals. So that's another thing to really think about as a young couple. How many hands are in your pocket?
SPEAKER_00Come on now.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. Oh my God. That is one of the questions I I always bring up to the young couples, especially the ones um that are engaged and coming in for the premarital work. Um I said, first of all, how many people are do you have where where does your money have to go every month? And let's fast forward down the road. When your parents get older, where are they going?
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_01Don't pretend that just because that's your mama, they're moving in your house. That conversation needs to happen. Because the thing is, I can't one couple said, Oh, we'll just cross that bridge when we get there. Um, I I I don't even know what to say to you. You know, because right now it's, you know, you know, uh, people in our age group, our parents, or if they have not already passed, they're at that age where we have to start deciding where are they gonna go, how are we gonna show up for them, you know, you know, obviously if whether they're gonna get home care or whatever that looks like. And that conversation needs to be had. And, you know, it's almost like they think you're throwing a wet blanket on their, you know, their excitement or you know, the whole wedding planning thing. But the wedding, that's just one day. You're married is supposed to be forever.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know. Oh my god. But um, Antonia, before you do that, I wanted to go back to the the hiding things because that is so much, that is so deep to me. And I hear that conversation as well. And I want to speak to the young lady that is listening to this, that feels like when they go shopping, they have to hide something. Trust and believe that that is the first step. That is the devil sticking his big toe into your marriage, creating and planting a seed of deception. It's not about the clothes that you're hiding. It's not about the clothes, it's not about that shoes, it's not about that bag. It is a seed of deception. And when seeds are planted, there's a harvest coming.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_00And I'd also like to say to the men, um, we also have to be careful. Um, sometimes the things that we like can seem like it's not a big deal. For some men, it's tools. For some men, it's the it's the new part for a car. Um, for some men, it's things that they collect. And it can be the same thing. If you're doing it and you're not willing to inform your spouse, then that it becomes an issue because you start thinking, well, this is this is my money. And then you get into that, and then it starts to grow another seed because now if if I do that, then my wife is looking at me going, so when'd you get that?
SPEAKER_04Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00But you told me I couldn't have this, but you went and got it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and so right. And if you're buying that, then I can buy these.
SPEAKER_00And I can go buy something else. So you have to have, again, that's a conversation you have to have, and you have to be honest. I mean, I know some people who love loads. Like, they can't, they can't, they can't go a week without going in the loads. May not buy anything, but they need to go in there. Um, so like I'm a golfer. I love to golf. But my wife knows me well enough to know, number one, I'm not going anywhere that's gonna be really expensive because I can't, I don't like to see my money go fast. I like my money to go real slow. So she knows that if I say, honey, I I I feel like I need to go golfing. She knows number one, I've already planned for it. I've already been saving for it, and what I'm going to use is not going to affect our money for the things that we've already set in place.
SPEAKER_02And I'm sharing if you don't mind to the couples that are listening, is that um a way to help with that, again, is going back to communication and making sure that those expectations are set. So we, you know, when we sat and we talked about it, first of all, we sit to the table and we, we, we do our finances together. Um, and then we also, you know, have the goals. And I know that you, you know, you talk about that as well, but we agreed that anything that comes to finances, I know some people are like, well, I'm not gonna ask permission because I'm grown and I have a job. It's not about asking permission, it's about being in unity and having those set goals and working together.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Exactly. And it goes to um, because what I'm hearing, what I'm hearing you say, I didn't use the word, but what I'm hearing you say is come to the table and hammer out that vision. Anything that you're doing that's not focusing on that vision, anything that goes against that vision, we need to abandon that. That's what I'm hearing. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Setting and we just in several areas of our life, we we have our vision and then we have those attainable goals. So every month, we lit we have monthly goals to get us to that ultimate. So here's where we want to be at the end of the year, and every month this is it. And we sit down at the end of the month and say, What did we do? What do we need to go back to? Um, and you know we didn't do right.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes we didn't do we didn't do any of the stuff. We got so caught up in life, in life that we just we just didn't get to it. And so we at Ben it's it was important for us to be honest. Um to be able to say, hey, you know what? We missed it this month. We didn't do anything we said we were gonna do. And so now we're let's backtrack. Um we always say that we wish that we could put Walmart and Amazon on our taxes because we get a lot of money back. Uh but but then even with that, we had to kind of stop and go, you know, look at how much money we've got. I don't know if anybody's ever done it. So this is uh another tip. Go through your checkbook and write down every place that you spend. And you'll quickly figure out where you spend the most money. Whether it's an Amazon, whether it's Walmart, whether it's Foodline, whether it's um um Sheehan, you know, because that's a that's a that's a devil's trap right there. Um or the dollar store, you know, because it's easy because you say, oh, well, this is only $5, and the next thing you know, your $5 is going from $5 to $75. And so you just have to be careful. And I think when you take the time to do that, which is something we did, we were amazed at how much money we were actually spending in some of these places. And then we were we started looking at, did we really need to go get that? Was that important at this time? Could we have waited for a different time? Could we wait for a sale? Um, you know, so we had to just change our way of thinking. It was us coming together to change our mindset is how we want to do it.
SPEAKER_02So, Karen, you brought up um a topic when you talked about preparing for when we have to take care of our parents or um just to share from, and and um we won't because it it could be a lot, but won't go into a lot. But the importance of being able to do that, and we both can speak to that because unfortunately, um, you know, I've I was my mother's primary caretaker, um, you know, and she's she's transitioned to one, and both of my husband's parents transitioned to one, and we help with them. Um, that is extremely important because it also impacts your relationship, um, just for my mother alone, because I was her primary one. You know, we didn't know the extent that it would be on our relationship, but I literally um lived with my mother Monday through Friday, came home Saturday and Sunday. And if we did not have a solid relationship and had spoken about how we would take care of my mother, that could have been the end to our marriage.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, speak to that. Speak to that. It's so important that, you know, because as I'm as you were wrapping up with with the other topic, I was gonna do this topic shift into this very conversation. Um because I you know, the we we act as if our our relationship can just um you know survive in and of itself when these challenges show up. And that's that's not true. They they can't. So if you don't mind, you share as much as you're you guys are comfortable with sharing. Um but I want to hear what were some of that day-to-day, what did that day-to-day look like? What are some of the things that um, you know, because I can we can, you know, I can speak to that in you know, in my own as do you you share, but I wanted to hear from you guys what were some of those things that, you know, you you know, you just look up and like, Lord Jesus, I need you today.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So so my mother, um, I've I've taken care of my mother since I was 15. I've I've always been there. I'm mama's girl, have always been there. Um, unfortunately, uh, before she transitioned, for two years, her, we we saw her decline. So, what that looked like for us was um it started out with me having to take off my job to take her to the appointments because she wasn't comprehending what they were saying. And the times that I didn't take her, she would just end up calling me upset. So not only was it physical, like a physical tiring, it was a mental and an emotional draining um for me personally. Um, and I'll speak for me just to kind of share what headspace and heart space I was in, and then you know how it transpired into my relationship with my husband and my children. Um, and then my mom got to the point where she could not live by herself. So I worked a full-time job. So I had to find someone to sit with her, which is finances, okay? Because it did it that came out of our pocket, right? Had to find someone to sit with mom while I was working, and then I would get off of work, go to my mother's house because that's where I spent the night, Monday through Friday. Um, and then like during the the time when I wasn't here, you know, I'm cooking her dinner, I'm cleaning her house, I'm doing our laundry, um, I am actually orchestrating her care, the therapist, and all of those from work. So, but then I'm still trying to connect with my husband. So we're on the phone, you know, talking late at night, or he would come to my mother's house just so that we could see each other. Um, we would FaceTime each other, but that was emotionally draining. So not only was he dealing with me being physically tired, he's also dealing with me being emotionally drained because I'm watching my mother decline.
SPEAKER_00Um, she speaks from your and so on the other side of that, um, because I love mom, she was we were blessed because our mothers were best friends, and we we have to take care of them. So I remember the first time I started noticing that mom was struggling, remembering things, and we had to have that conversation. And I knew it was heartbreaking for my wife to hear, hey, mom is having some challenges, and so I would take her to her appointments as well.
SPEAKER_02Um, and so can I I'm sorry, I'm gonna hear he would take her to the appointments as well because he knew there were times when I could I didn't have the capacity.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Yes, absolutely, yeah. And so, and and mom trusted me. So, you know, it was it was easy to do it for her. Um and so we were dealing with that. We had to watch. And and you know, this is this is not just in the last couple of years. This has been going on through our relationship. We watched this woman um her entire life. And so um, while my wife is there and I'm watching her going through this emotionally, it's affecting me because I'm I'm in the process of preparing to graduate. I'm in college. So we're past through, I'm in college.
SPEAKER_01I'm counting it. I'm counting it. Because I'm counting. So we're we're both in four in full-time jobs. Yes. You're still still parenting, right? Uh I mean, and all of these, all of these jobs, it's not that you're showing up and you're just in your space and you're working. People are pulling virtue out of you every single time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. And because of the areas that we work in, there was no way around it. I'm I'm I'm in school to be a school counselor, so that's what we do. So the people are always pulling. Um, she's a principal, so she has an entire staff, she has the entire school, she has the parents, so we're dealing with that. And again, our church is a few years old when this is going on. So we're dealing with that. We're in transition. There's so many things that are happening, and we were able to get through it through a lot of conversation.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, and while she's there taking care of mom, I'm here at the house making sure that everything is done, making sure that the house is straight, making sure that um things are ready for her. So making sure I would call and say, Hey, what are you thinking about wearing tomorrow? Getting clothes out for my wife, making sure she's ready so she doesn't have to stress, checking on the children, um, you know, going over, staying as late as possible, sometimes staying over and getting up early and coming home because I didn't want her to be by herself. Um, it was it was a it was a draining time, but it was a learning time. And then on top of that, I'm still with my family, I'm the I was the youngest of the group. So my oldest sister was taking care of my mother, but I was her backup. My oldest brother was taking care of our father, but I was the backup. So we're taking care of three parents at the same time, along with everything else. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, and as I'm listening, I'm thinking, geez, because every one of those things, like Jesus said, the woman that grabbed on to the hem of his garment, she pulled virtue from him. Every one of this group of people is pulling something from you. You know, this whether it's like you said, whether it's the parents, the teachers, the students, your your parent, your you know, as your parents being ill. And now you guys got to tell us how you get through, over, around. How did you move through that day-to-day and cared well for each other and yourselves?
SPEAKER_02Being transparent, there were moments where we didn't do it well. You know, we didn't do it because we were tired. So there were times when, you know, where we were snippy. Um, but what we first of all, of course, through prayer, but we had to be intentional. Um, we had to make sure because we knew that Friday night, all day Saturday, and Sunday till Sunday, probably around three-ish, is the only time that we had together. So we had to protect that time and not give it to anybody else. Um, of course, Sunday morning was church, but that Friday night and that Saturday became our time and our time only. And of course, the children came over, but we were intentional about date nights. We were intentional about, you know, even sometimes we didn't want to go anywhere. Just kind of sit and cuddle. Hey, how are you doing for real? Um, there were times when I had to break down and I'm crying so hard that only he could understand what I was saying. That's how I believe that's how I was able to get through it because I knew that even when I wasn't able to speak exactly how I was feeling, he heard me loud and clear. Um and that and that came because of the communication um before.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I I felt like it was super important, as she said, for us to fight for our time. Um that was a time when we we kind of stopped taking engagements. Um we were only doing the necessary things. And even with that, it got hard. Um, you know, staying up late, uh, trying to do homework, try but and uh one of the parts we didn't talk about was for a part of that time I was actually leaving. I got permission to leave work early so that I could go relieve the person that was sitting with mom Holland um so that I could be there to relieve her so she can leave. And I was there until my wife got off, and then we did all the necessary stuff before I could even come home. And so um, you know, I would still have to try to get homework done. And so there were just moments, and as she said, we did not do it well. We were we were um cuckoo for cocoa buffs. Um for no other way to really describe it. Um we were seeking out counseling, we were um definitely asking our friends to pray for us. Um because we knew we had friends that that saw the heaviness on us, but we couldn't always express it. We couldn't always, you know, you have to find a safe space because we're dealing with so much. And it was it was hard sometimes to find people. And then we didn't want to, we didn't want to bring everybody down because we were dealing with it, but we really needed those times. And so there we were blessed to have a few friends that were, you know, able to say, hey man, come on, let's let's take a ride. Um or we're coming to get your wife. Do you mind take her? Go go do what you need to do because we're We need these moments, but it had to be outside of that time that we had together because we knew, you know, this is this is the only time we're gonna have this week.
SPEAKER_02I also learned, um, and I know that this is a lesson that God taught me throughout this process. One is that I'm not superwoman because I I literally, because I am a perfectionist, um, I had to do everything. But I learned speed to it. Right, right. Because I I did. I, you know, things had to be done this way, this time. You, you know, nobody can do it better than me. And I would tire myself out. But going through this process with my mother, his parents, we actually endured um seven close deaths in three years. Yeah. And I think it was three or four of them was within um a half a year, maybe. It was literally almost every month. Um, so I I became okay and comfortable with saying to people, I'm sorry, I don't have the capacity to do that right now. And I felt okay. Because before I would feel guilty. So, you know, speaking to the the females, even to the couples, it is okay, one, to not be okay. And two, it is okay to say, I do not have the capacity to do that right now.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. Exactly. That's so important to be to know, or for one, sound like you guys had um excellent boundaries. So the boundaries because, like you said, you will tire yourself out. Um, and uh what I love about um you both agreed, the importance of being intentional about your alone time, your together time. Um, nothing comes in the way of that. You need to have those things in place. There's just certain things that just need to be non-negotiables. We are going to do this once a week, once a month, whatever that looks like, because that's how you build your relationship. You know, there were so many, as you know, there were so many relationships, marriages, you know, committed relationships, whatever, that died during COVID. Because people were finding themselves spending time with each other, and suddenly, I don't know if I really like you like that. And why? Because they didn't even know each other. You know, and we're both, you know, us, we're in the the emptiness space right along with you guys. And there's to me, you know, and I know for you guys, but you know, to me as well, it's like this is the best time of my life. I didn't like baby, we can go do this, we can go do that. Yes, yes, we actually like each other.
SPEAKER_00Yes, we we really do.
SPEAKER_01Exactly, and so it's like, you know, yes, the honeymoon, you know, sometimes they think the honeymoon is over after year two or year three, but I think we we're gonna find another level to the honeymoon after as empty nesters.
SPEAKER_00Yes. I agree 100%.
SPEAKER_02And I think it's good because if when you are intentional about spending that time together, because as you get older, you grow, you mature, you change. And so constantly learning each other and not being upset because I used to like the color orange and now I don't like the color orange because I'm changing. You know, don't be upset with each other about the change. Come on, let's grow together. Exactly. Exactly. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Oh my goodness. I love it. I love how you guys intertwine all of the different challenges that you know you guys have gone through. Um, not sugarcoating any of it, because you know, I people look at um, you know, some of us that have um, you know, marriages that we, you know, we and I'll go there. We have great marriages. We we love our spouses, they love us, you know. Um, but it's like people look at us and think that we just got up one day and we just have this amazing marriage. Um, nope, nope. Yes, work. This is a job. Yes, this is a job. And I think sometimes they, you know, they confuse that with some, you know, I don't know, the internet, I guess, you know, they the weddings that they see and the relationships that they see. And again, the the people that you surround yourself with will either make you or break you. I am a firm believer in that. And as you guys were going through those hardships, you had that core group of people that could come in and say, Hey, I'm relieving you. Let me take you to dinner, let me pray for you. They're not necessarily taking the the burdens away, but they're helping you carry it. And I notice um some of the young couples, they they have the tendency to isolate themselves. You know, they're over here and they're living and nobody's gonna tell them what to do and how to do it and all of the things. But no, you really do need a good mentor to to help you walk this out. You know, we we seek help to buy a house, we seek help about a car, we seek help about a job, but the thing that you're supposed to do for the rest of your life. Oh, I got it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right, right. I can do this. No, seek help. We are not created, we weren't created to be loners. That that's not why we were created. We were created to come together in unity, but be wise, as the Bible says, and the counsel and which you seek.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely, absolutely, exactly, exactly. And it's that's why it's so important that you and I have our um our own values and character and all of those things already, so that we're seeking help that aligns with that.
SPEAKER_02Correct.
SPEAKER_01You know, for us, it's you know, it's the word of God. God is the one that create created marriage, so let's go back to him and find out how to do it. You know?
SPEAKER_00What's his instructions?
SPEAKER_01Yes. You also what uh what's the word say?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, one of the things you brought up was um the internet. And that was something we talked about that we feel that that's uh an issue for couples today. Um I'm see, my again, I can't help who I am, but I'm a firm believer that iron does sharpen iron. And so you have to put yourself around people that you see something in them and you go, wow, I need to find out what that's about. And so I don't want to offend anybody because we are in an informational age. But the downfall to this informational age is this I can find anybody to agree with whatever I feel because all I have to do is type it in. If I say today is blue, I can type in people who agree with me that today is blue, and you'll get thousands of people that will support what you believe. But it doesn't mean that it's the right or it's the truth. So you want to surround yourself with people that will go back to the word, that will go back, as we say, go back to the manual and see what the manual says.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I listen, I I am growing, I was growing up not knowing that there are people out here that actually believe that the world is flat, right? I there was a whole since the internet age, there's a whole group of people out here that actually believe that. And so just think about that for a second. You know, and so if if you're not, if you and I are not firm in what we say we believe, we can be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine that you go through. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. All right. So again, we're not not trying to keep you all night, would love to, but I won't. So before we wrap, I wanted to ask what's one practical tool that you would leave or habit that you would um, well, for one, it helped you guys, and you would want to share it with our young couples or with our audience. What is that one tangible tool that you say, you know what, that's our go-to, we did it, and this is how we got here?
SPEAKER_02So, one um conversation I had with one of my aunties and uncles when we were young in marriage, and um we were low budget, okay? And they had no actually no budget. And they had asked us, when was the last time we went on vacation? And we didn't have an answer. And one of the things they said to us is that it was important for us, again, going back to being intentional about cultivating our marriage. And they challenged us, because again, we had children, we they challenged us to do two. And and I'll say, I'll explain why two. One, to take the family, because we always did things with the family. Okay, so you have to take the family. Go ahead, do your vacation, whatever that looks like with the family. But always do a vacation or time with just you and your spouse. So there were times when we couldn't afford to go away, but we would do staycations where it's just us. Um, we would get in the vehicle and just ride because it's just us. That has worked for us. We make it intentional about having that time for us.
SPEAKER_00And we still do the riding. I think that is one of our, that's our safe place. Um, even if we're upset with one another, that's our safe place because we can get in the car and we're gonna ride. We have a um one-person audience. Ever you gonna talk to me or we're not gonna talk? We're gonna ride until we figure something out. But we gonna we're gonna have to talk because we're gonna need to eat, we're gonna need to get something to drink. And so that's that's that place where we can go, okay, this is ridiculous. We done drove 30 miles and we've said nothing. What's going on? Um that's our safe place. That has always been our safe place the entire time we've been married. Um, and we still do it today, and it's much easier now because we're empty nesters. We can just we get up and say, we're gonna go, we're gonna go. We don't owe anybody any explanations.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00Um so that that I think is the key thing for me. But I want to just speak to finances um for that couple. There's something that we did. Um, you heard us say earlier that one of the biggest challenges was that we so I have to say it this way, and she knows why I'm saying it. There was too many hands in my wife's pocketbook versus mine.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_00I had no problem saying no. I had no problem because most people didn't want to ask me anyway. So we had to have a hard conversation. And when we started looking at the fact that we had more money going out, and we were watching other people enjoy their life, but we're setting home with no money because we gave money to this person or that person. So I said to her one day, I said, let's let's set a goal, let's change our let's change our approach about this. And so I came home and I'll tell you how much it was. I had $200 in cash. And we took the $200, we put it in an envelope, and we put it in our safe deposit box. And we said, if anybody calls and asks for money, they can get money from this $200. If they give it back, we'll put it back in the envelope. If they don't give it back, fine. But when the money from this envelope has reached zero, we have no more money to borrow. And when we did that, it made it easier for my wife to say no, because she could honestly say, we don't have no money. Because this envelope is empty. It wasn't a lie, the envelope was empty. And we saw a great shift. We saw that people started respecting the fact that, hey, we can't just go to them and and that we're gonna get money from there. They we saw the shift, and now the money that we were lending out, now we could take it and spend it on us. We could go out and have dinner. We could go out and buy something that we, I mean, something wasteful. We might not need uh one of our greatest dates, I think we spent we ate more junk food on this one date because that's what we wanted. We had cotton candy, we had pretzels, we had uh a couple of sodas. We didn't care, we it it was our money, and it just felt good to do that. And even to this day, we have we have a limit, and we refuse to go past that limit. And so if you don't give us the money back, then hey, the next time somebody comes and says, Well, can I borrow money? Well, hey, your your cousin didn't get the money back, so there's no money. Um and I felt like by doing that, yeah, we also taught our children how to do that. So you don't have to always feel because so people can't call you and give you that guilt. Oh, well, you know, I'm struggling. Well, we are too. We're struggling to maintain the happiness that we're that we're having ours, and we want to keep the happiness. And so that's the other thing I think we would share to any couple. You gotta understand how to handle your money.
SPEAKER_01Yes, so true. And you can even the the boundaries that you that you're talking about, they can I think you can apply that to almost anything because there's so much a lot of times the issues that these you know that couples are facing is because they have invited so much noise and so many other voices into their marriage. And uh if you just shut down for a second, because I tell all the couples all the time, I said, stop reading those posts talking about all men does this and all women does this, because you are not married to all women and all men. Look at your partner, work with your partner, have conversation with your partner. Yes, you know, um because if you're if you're not uh if you're not careful, you allow these voices to be the influence in your marriage relationship, and we know that's a disaster.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yes, disaster waiting to happen.
SPEAKER_01Yes, exactly. But thank you guys so very much for sharing with us. Do you guys have any last-minute tips or ideas or anything that we didn't cover that you would want to share before we go?
SPEAKER_00Um, so for me, I will just say this marriage is a wonderful experience. Um, don't let anyone make you think that every marriage couple is not being successful. You have you have two groups right here that are proof that you it will work if you're willing to put the work in. Um, again, you hear our story, and the story can sound like it's not real, but these are real events that happen in our lives and we are only here today. One, because of the grace of God. Yes, but we're also here because we decided to invest into this marriage. We put full stock in this marriage, we we go the extra mile, and I will be the first to tell you I loved this woman when we got married, but I'm more in love with her today than I was on yesterday. And so that's my advice to anybody. As we always say, fall in love all over again.
SPEAKER_01All over again.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes. Antonette, you want to wrap?
SPEAKER_02I do. And I want to share too, to be each other's biggest cheerleader. Um, we had mentioned before, we have to stop with the competition. You know, there are times when my light shines brighter and it's okay. There are times when his light shines brighter. But what we have to remember, no matter whose light is shining bright, it's both of us because we are one. Um, so again, you know, I just echo exactly what my husband says. Be when some people ask, well, when people ask, who is your best friend? My best friend is Raymond Perry, my husband. Right? Now, of course, I have girlfriends, but he is my friend. Your your husband and wife, your lovers and friends. Absolutely. Be each other's biggest supporter and cheerleader. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. And you can add nothing else to that because that is facts. That bottom line, you guys. And this has been such an amazing conversation. Again, I wish we could have a part two and three. Um I want to invite you guys back. And you know, you guys have the freedom to come back and you know have more conversations about this. Um, the topic of marriage, you can never exhaust it because we are constantly learning and growing together. We have never been in this season of our lives. And when you've been married more than a decade, in our case, together, what we talked about 65 years of marriage, all four of us. Yes. Yes. So if we've learned some things, we've done some stupid things, and we've learned from it, and we're on the other side of it and constantly growing. So, again, thank you both so very much for being here with us. With that being said, thank you so much for joining us on another episode of the State of Our Union and the fight to keep it. Thank you and have an amazing day.