The State of Our Union [And the fight to keep it]
A marriage podcast designed to encourage reconnection, through open dialogue about the topics that challenges most marriages.
The State of Our Union [And the fight to keep it]
What Every Young Couple Need to Hear Before It’s Too Late | AD & Courtney
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This episode dives into the real, unfiltered work of building a strong marriage. Karen sits down with AD and Courtney to unpack how early struggles with communication, money, and expectations shaped their relationship, and what helped them grow through it. They emphasize that healthy marriages require intentional growth, honest conversations, and self-awareness, especially for men stepping into leadership and women learning to trust that leadership.
Connect with AD and Courtney:
https://www.the30dayfix.net/optin
https://www.instagram.com/adthekingmaker
https://www.youtube.com/@adthekingmaker
https://www.tiktok.com/@adthekingmaker
Thanks for tuning in! If today’s EP resonated with you, subscribe, like, and share it with someone who needs it. Connect with me on all platforms @karenwillcoach - and if you are ready to go deeper, join the community and continue the conversation inside my Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/loveandconflict" Until next time, let’s continue to fight for our union.
Welcome back to another episode of The State of Our Union and the Fight to Keep It. I'm your host, Karen Williams, and today I have AD and his wife Courtney. AD is a men's relationship coach, and Courtney is his amazing wife. We all know that he's not all that he thinks he is without Courtney, but we're gonna dive in. We are going to dive into some really good conversations today. I know that we, you know, I know there's a lot of uh, you know, topics around the subject of marriage and uh marriage relationships. And so we want it to be fun. You know, we want the conversation to go whichever direction that it goes today, which of course we're gonna be more conversational. So, AD, introduce yourself and your wife, Courtney, to our audience today.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So my name is uh Augusta Dunbar. But as you know, I go by AD, the Kingmaker, on all my social media platforms. Um, I am a men's relationship coach. This is my wife. She is lucky enough to be married to such a great guy like myself. And uh we have been together for 15 years. That's really on and off. Okay. Um sometimes she was acting right, sometimes she wasn't. But we've been married now for six years, and um I said I don't know how long we're gonna make it. You know, we take it month by month, day by day. Um, she likes to consider me her best friend. I don't, I don't, I don't own up to that title, but we're very, very close. Very, very close. Um, I will say she is she's the best woman I've ever had. No one's ever treated me better. And um, you know, this is this is my partner in crime.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes. Awesome. Courtney, tell us a little bit about you.
SPEAKER_02Um, I am his wife, obviously. We met in college. Um, we've been through a lot together. Um, but yeah, he's definitely uh my best friend. Um if you know us, uh we're typically always laughing about something. Um we don't take a lot of things seriously. Um we do take our marriage seriously. Um particularly outside of that. Um we like to have fun.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. And that's you know, I always say humor is probably the best um, you know, tool to, you know, work our way through marriage because hey, we can't take ourselves too seriously. You do that and you know, you we're in trouble. So let's jump right into it. Um we're gonna talk a little bit about uh one of you guys mentioned earlier that you have been through a lot together. What is one of those challenges that you guys have experienced? And tell us a little bit about it, as much as you're comfortable with, and then to kind of walk us through a little bit what are some of the tools that you guys use to get through it, get to the other side of it, and you know, talk as much or as little about it as you want to.
SPEAKER_00So many things to choose from. Yeah, so many. Uh I'll I'll lead. So I would say one of our first challenges early on was just learning how to communicate our thoughts, our feelings. And this is like way back in college. Communicate our thoughts and our feelings without being angry, without belittling one another, without raising voices, without being disrespectful, um, without sweeping things under the rug and just letting resentment build for sure.
SPEAKER_03Right. And so how how did you uh first of all, would you agree that was one of the biggest challenges, Courtney?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think just being together since we were both 18, um, we were treating each other still like we were young adults slash kids. Um, and it's hard to grow out of that when that's what you're used to for several years.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. So how did you guys get to the other side of that?
SPEAKER_00Uh we've done lots and lots of things. I would consider myself a uh, they what do they call that? Like a personal development junkie. So we're talking therapy, relationship counseling, books on communication. And I never really did these things to like improve our relationship, quote unquote. It's more so I like learning about me, right? And I want to treat others the way I want to be treated. So when I started realizing, like, perfect example, my my dad is the same way. Our tones can be harsh, very sharp, very straight to the point. And to me, that's just how we talk, right? That's how me and my mom and my dad talk. But then you realize everybody's not like that. And then you learn, oh, that tone in general is just destructive. Nothing good really comes from that tone. Um, and I learned that in like a sales course that I was taking. So that was something that I realized, oh, okay, that's a destructive tone of voice. Let me just not use that. Then I learned to have a loving tone. And then I realized, oh, shoot, you know, my woman is my mirror, and anything that I give to her, she's gonna give back to me. So if I give her harshness and sharpness in my tone, she's gonna give me harshness and sharpness back. But if I give her love and softness and warmth in my tone, then that's what I get back. So I would say a lot of our growth has just come from me learning new things, and now I'm engaging with her in a way where I'm aware of my communication instead of unaware.
SPEAKER_04Courtney?
SPEAKER_02Uh honestly, he has led all of that, and I've typically have followed along with it. Um he is definitely a personal development junkie. Um I think a lot of that stuff has rubbed off on me, and then in some areas I took, you know, my own initiative initiative uh to learn how to be uh a better wife, because you know, I think most people when they get married, they think they know, but they really don't until you're in the thick of it. So just following his lead in that regard, but then also doing some things on my own to to show initiative that I care.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's it's um the the conversation we always want to have, well, especially on the on this show anyway, the we want the conversation to lead in a direction where um you're speaking directly to that young couple who at you know maybe a year or two into marriage and they're going through the same thing. And they're like, well, Courtney, AD, I don't want to sit down and read all these books. I don't want to do all of that. What do you say to what do you say to those couples?
SPEAKER_00Um, I don't want to sit down and read all these books. I don't necessarily like reading either. It takes a lot for me to sit still long enough to to really consume something. So I get that. I would say that you've got to learn relationship mathematics, right? There's just certain things that are just true. Uh there's certain principles that are just true that whether you know them or not, yeah, you are being you are being affected by them. Just like you don't have to believe in gravity to jump off a building and die, right? Like so there are principles like that. And one of the principles within relationships, especially marriage, specifically marriage, is that both partners must grow. Period. Yes. Most both partners must grow. So once you realize that, your choice is either you grow now, you can have two stagnant people. I I think that does work, right? But I think that typically the marketplace forces men to grow, right? So the man is going to have to grow or or grow broke, right? And so knowing that, you your choice to me is as simple as do I want to maintain this relationship or do I not? I know I must grow. And based on that, I would say, how can you grow in such a way that is enjoyable to you? To where you're having fun with the process, because then it doesn't feel like work, right? Growth can be fun if you make it.
SPEAKER_03Okay. So you're you're saying whether or not you to that couple, whether or not you choose to grow, you're gonna be forced to grow.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And so you cannot force the other half to do it, but both must grow. And I don't think any I don't think anybody wants to be in a stagnant relationship, right? Or a stagnant lifestyle. Um, maybe if you're like 80 and you're like, hey, I am who I am, she is who she is, and that's it. But you're you said young couple. So yeah, you both both parties must grow.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Courtney, what's your thoughts on that one?
SPEAKER_02Uh yeah, I mean, I definitely agree with what he's saying, and I think to his point, you have to find something that makes it enjoyable. Um, I know several years ago I mean, I think now currently, he like loves watching YouTube videos, books, seminars, all that stuff. But even before I think either one of us were really digesting in that way. Um, we used to live in an apartment complex and there were several married couples that we ended up befriending who had who were older than us, so had been married for us um a lot longer than we had. Um, and just by being around them, you pick up on things from them, like how to how to talk to your husband, how to talk to your wife, like things like that, where it's like you're just by hanging out with people who have been there and done it, um, you pick up a lot of value um and it's enjoyable, right? Like you're doing what you're already doing, but you're getting value along the way. So I would say maybe even just start off by finding a couple of friends who may have been married for a while, um, or even an older couple, or just go to events for for married folks and just befriend them and talk to them, ask them questions. Cause I find that they typically love to give advice, especially to younger couples as well. Um, so that's probably an easy first step to kind of get involved in that.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And that is so gold because um Rob and I have been married uh 33 years, and in our first few years of marriage, that's exactly what we did. Um, there wasn't, you know, as you know, you know, it wasn't a lot of books out on that kind of stuff. We didn't have access to the internet and that type of thing. So going out and like you said, attending those marriage functions, being around people that's been married for a while, and being being able to um discern also, like, is that the couple I want to emulate? Probably not. And then you see the other ones that, yep, they're they're heading in the right direction. I like the way she talks to him. I like the way he, you know, treasures her. You know, you see the different things. And, you know, some of the, some of, of course, some of the habits, we didn't pick up all of them, obviously. Um, you know, I'm not the one, uh, I'm just not that wife that cares whether or not my husband opens the door for me. It just doesn't matter to me. Um I don't, you know, knock people that do it, but it's not that important to me. Um if there's specific things that I want him to do, I know how to ask for that. You know, Valentine's Day comes, I'm not that girl. I don't care about the flowers, I don't care about the candy. But there's some some that do that's valuable to that particular couple. So my point is there were things that I, you know, we knew what would work for us. And so we picked up on those behaviors, those habits. And so that is such a good point to make. Um, you know, if so if you're not a reader, if you're not a woman, you know, if you don't want to go invest in the YouTube videos, if you don't want to invest in the self-help, you know, webinars or whatever, that's one way that you and I are, you know, for that young couple out there, that they can, you know, use as such a good source of information, a great tool, great example. You know, some mentors are important. So people around you, you know, the environment that you set for your relationship. So I I hear you guys saying you can't just hang around just anybody.
SPEAKER_00Nah, we don't even like people like that. No.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, we just can't hang around anybody having them invest in or pour into our marriage. Yeah, so I got you. I got you. All right. So when we talk about things, you know, challenges like money, communication, expectations, of, you know, what area stretched you guys? Not necessarily um a challenge, but it stretched you early on and why why was I know for us finance we start laughing together?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we laughing because we we know it's it's money. Money is is is is the one. Um you want to tell the story about uh the uh the where the hell were we? In the the marriage couples thing.
SPEAKER_02You tell us because it's from the I don't remember.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I'm gonna tell the story, she's gonna correct me. So we joined this pre- it was premarital counseling, is what it was. So it was us and probably like ten other couples, right? And I think we were not married yet, and all of the ten couples, no one was married yet, and it would they they brought us in, and I think it was like six or eight weeks or something like that, and we would get together every Tuesday or something, maybe Thursday, and they would say, Hey, and it was led by older married couples in the church, and they would say, Um, our goal is not to tell you that marriage is gonna be peachy king and it's gonna be amazing. Some of y'all might realize that y'all don't need to be married by the time this whole thing is over, and that's great, right? And I like that. I like that. Go ahead and lead with the worst case scenario for me. And so sometimes they break the men and the women up, and I remember one time um the this particular week, it was about it was about money, right? And so they had us all sit in a circle. And you here's the thing. I wanna I wanna I wanna cover my wife here. She's not mean, but she used to be mean, okay? She's not rude, she just used to be rude. And so I forget what do you remember what the question was that they asked?
SPEAKER_02What the credit score was?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, what was the question though?
SPEAKER_02Was something that's important to you, maybe financially?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was like something they asked a question like, what's really important to you um financially or something. And she just and she here's the thing, you've seen her sitting there. She don't talk that much. She she, you know, she's she's my little mute babe. And so it's funny because they asked that question, and she spoke up very much with her chest. Oh, yeah, credit score is absolutely important to me. If you, if you dusted, you ain't got the bad credit, that's just I just don't know. I don't know exactly what she said. But like she said it in such a way that it was so obvious that my credit at the moment was trash, which it was. And I was just like, wow, okay. So I don't Well, you were shaking your head in agreement. Okay. It was just, it was, she didn't read the wrong. She didn't read the wrong. I don't know if anybody else could tell that I was uncomfortable, but she definitely did I tell the story correctly? I think so. So yeah, it was a very awkward moment for us. But, you know, to her, to her point, like credit is important. I was at that time in my at that time in my life, credit was not very important. I was like, I don't need credit, I just make a lot of money. Right. So but but having conversations about money. Yeah. Like learning that people have different rules for money. So like the husband might believe that money is meant for convenience. And the wife might believe, oh, well, money is meant for fun. Right. And so you just have different expectations of what to do when you get paid, type of thing. So that was a challenge. Um, kind of for us very, very early on, very embarrassing. But she's she's done much better these days.
SPEAKER_03So Courtney, what was going through your mind when that what I said, when that um when that conversation was happening, or when that you know the question came out, or you you in addition to that, let me let me back up a little bit. Um even then you said all right, credit scores were uh was important. What led you to that train of thought? What got you to that place, why you thought that was so important to you?
SPEAKER_02Um, I mean, I th I think for me it's just probably my upbringing, like just having access to credit can get you further along in life. And he just had a completely different viewpoint on it at a time. And I think at one point I just stopped trying to convince him and you know, he's the one that kind of has to learn in his own way for him to really grasp what Why do you keep pointing at me?
SPEAKER_00You I'm right here. Do you see that? She's like him, he, he. Go ahead, go ahead.
SPEAKER_04Not over here.
SPEAKER_00That's exactly that's exactly what it felt like. That's exactly what it felt like.
SPEAKER_02I didn't point your fingers.
SPEAKER_00If you felt the shoe fit, um Her hand has been down this entire interview. All of a sudden it's up.
SPEAKER_02Um and again, I just think you can go you can have maybe a um hardship happen, but if you have access to credit and um I don't want to go as far as say it's your identity, but like that just says something about you and how you handle money and how you handle money can relate to other things in in life and it just shows discipline um in my head. So it's just a factor amongst many factors, but I know for me, like finances are important and um we have somewhat differing viewpoints on how finances should go. Um, but we've again have done a lot of things to kind of help shape our mindset around money. We've done the Dave Ramsey course, um, we've done um separate accounts, we've done percentage-based, we currently do joint. So like it's figuring out what works for you. Um, and like every couple is gonna be different, but it's at least like you mentioned, having the conversation so you can be in alignment and you know, being in a marriage, like you have to be moving towards the same goal, and that means financially as well. Um, so it's important to have those discussions, especially early on.
SPEAKER_03Yes, absolutely. Because uh, you know, and I want the audience to know this. We're not saying that you have to, you know, regulate or, you know, walk through your financial um, the financial arena exactly the same way. But if you're not having a conversation about it, you're avoiding, you know, the inevitable. Um, and I get it, you know, our financial personality is always it should, most of the time anyway. It's um it's usually different than your spouse, you know. Because when when I got married, we tell the joke all the time. I AD, I think you're, I don't know whose credit score was lower, mine or yours. But we I remember we went to buy our first truck as a as a couple. And I remember the dealership, the guy at the dealership told my husband, if you want to walk out of here with that truck, do not put your wife's name on there.
SPEAKER_00I see, I haven't been there, I hadn't been there. I hadn't been there.
SPEAKER_03Because this listen, you know, you're talking about a guy who has never in his life bounced a check. He's 58 years old and he has never bounced a check, like ever, right? Never uh overdrawn, none of those things. And uh, you know, I had just when we met just in Dayton a year before that, I just came out of a divorce and I had to file bankruptcy and all of that stuff. So hey, credit score, I didn't even know what that is, to be honest. You know, so you know, we learn, we learn as we as we go along. Yes, yeah, you know, so you're talking about 30 plus years later, yeah, we've learned some things along the way, you know. But the the thing is is um initiating that conversation. That is the important thing. Um, you know, like you said, you guys have done the you know, the joint accounts, you've done the the um you know, separate accounts, you've, you know, I guess one person pay the bills, one person do this other thing. But hey, have the conversation and determine what works for your marriage. Don't let this be a thing that rips your marriage apart, obviously. All right. So yeah, the the financial thing was the well, that was the main struggle for us, for us to, you know, again, having that uh misaligned expectation, because hey, I thought, I mean, so I made the minimum payment this month. That just means it's $25 more dollars I can spend on that card. He was like, girl, no, you can't do that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, you don't you don't know what you don't know. You know, somebody that part. Yeah, you don't know what you don't know. So it you we all start somewhere.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And and yeah, again, you get around people that um, you know, that that's you know, whether they're masters at it or you see, you know, they're setting good examples, you know, to follow after. So yeah, that needs to be um that's uh I think anyway, that's a hot topic that needs to be, you know, need to be discussed. And I don't think it's enough to to say, okay, that's um, don't marry this person. You know, I think. You know, when you for those that may be engaged at the moment, listening to this uh podcast, being able to say, Hey, I know your credit is trash, or I know her credit is trash, but we're going into this relationship honest, right? We can still work through that, you know, get the help where we need. So it's not a um, you know, I don't think it should be anyway, the the sole reason that you say, okay, no, the the relationship is over. Because those behaviors can be learned.
SPEAKER_00You can even make it fun and be like, hey, we're gonna, you know, plan and pay for the wedding once the person who has the lowest credit, their credit score gets to X number, right? Like you can you can set a goal and kind of have fun with it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, so true. Um so what are some of the top struggles? Because I know um, AD, you you you're a uh men's relationship coach, so you get to have those conversations. Um but what are some of the the top 10 issues that you see these young couples dealing with, especially from the guy's perspective?
SPEAKER_00Oh man, from the guy's perspective, like the problems that the guy has.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, even what they're what they have, what they're struggling with, and how that is even bleeding over into their relationship in general.
SPEAKER_00So many, so many. Okay. First off, first I would say that, and me and you've talked about this in private before. The guy has to have a vision, right? Because he has to know where he's going, know what outcomes he wants, and that he's bringing her along with him. Like he's bringing her into his vision, it's not the other way around. Correct. Right. Um, she likely married you so that she can be led and she can kind of turn her brain off, not the other way around, right? Second, um, lust is very important. Lust is very, very, very, very, very important. Um because it creates a desire for her to literally want to physically be close to you, right? Um third, I would say, and they probably wouldn't word it this way, but then a lot of men don't like themselves. They just don't like them, they don't like how they feel when they sit alone in a room, just them, no phone, no music, no internet, just their own thoughts. And they don't love themselves, they don't respect themselves, and your woman is going to mirror that back to you. So I used to talk to myself very harshly, like in my head, right? Lots of shame, lots of critical talking. And any woman that I would deal with, even from high school, even you know, before my wife, would talk to me the same way. And I see a lot of these guys deal with this problem, and they're like, she's so rude, she's so disrespectful. And that to me is just proof that he does not respect himself. She speaks to you out loud in the physical world, how you speak to yourself when you make a mistake in your head. Wow. Right. Wow, even if they think that's not true, then let's just say you don't speak to yourself like that in your head. Well, then there's still something wrong because you allow her to speak to you that like that way. Like you don't check her.
SPEAKER_04Right?
SPEAKER_00That's very important. You have to learn how to correct your woman, right? You don't have to be rude about it or anything, but like you allow poor treatment from her to you. So whether you talk poorly to yourself in your head or you don't, you just allow it, either way, you're in control. Right? You it is your job to set a boundary and say, hey, that's not gonna work for me. That's not okay. I don't appreciate that. My mother doesn't even speak to me that way, right? But when you speak to your way, yourself that way in private, it's just normal. You don't even think anything is wrong with it. You just think, oh, this is how all women talk. This is how my uh mom talked to my dad. This is how my aunt talked to my uncle. This is how, you know, uh Marge Smith talks to Homer. And, you know, the the the The Simpsons. So yeah, it's it it all comes down to self-love, self-respect, because she cannot love you more than you love yourself. She cannot respect you more than you respect yourself.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. Courtney, what are your thoughts on that? You know, like some of the top ten, you know, issues that you observe, you know, whether it's on the woman's side or what you see affecting relationships in general.
SPEAKER_02Uh I mean, he's the relationship experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um just from what I've observed.
SPEAKER_00Um we're gonna give you one.
SPEAKER_02What's that?
SPEAKER_00Because we we see this, we're not gonna name no names. A lot of the relationships, and I'm gonna throw it out there, you can say if you agree or not. The remember, the man is supposed to be the leader, right? And so a lot of these relationships the husband is following the woman's lead. Like he likes her more than she likes him, and it's very evident in how they treat one another. That's that's one that we talk about a lot. So I just wanted to help you out. If but if you disagree, then you can you know shoot that one down.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean I think that goes back to what I was gonna say is I think everyone does their relationship different. Um but thinking from like a spiritual biblical perspective, like the man is the leader and then the woman should be following. Um and I think just today with how society kind of portrays relationships and women's like women are strong and independent, but then some of them struggle when they get in a relationship because they're just so used to different conditioning. Um, which I think is fine, but you have to find someone that that wants that. And I I know some men do and some men don't. Um, so it's and I think I guess you could say it's sort of relates to alignment as to what um each other wants and then like the ultimate goal for the relationship, um and aligning on that early versus just kind of I don't know, I haven't dated in so long. I I at least from my perspective, you just kind of from like TV and whatnot, like it's just fun. So let's just kind of mess around, date, just not serious. Um and instead of kind of having some of those serious conversations up front, or even like you in your head, you think it's serious, but it's not nothing's been verbalized, you haven't talked about it. You just assume that the person's on the same page as you and you realize that they're not. Um so it's really being very intentional about going at least going into something, um, getting married, engaged, and all that, um, that you're clear on what you want and be able to verbalize it and just to ensure that the other person on this is on the same page, which you see a lot of the times you'll get to like several months in or a year in, whatever it may be, and then you realize like you guys don't want the same thing. Yeah. So it's best to kind of discuss those. As uncomfortable as it may be early on, it's like, well, what are we doing? Are we just having fun or are we actually moving towards something greater for our relationship?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That is so important because you know, when we uh when we talk about the we're talking about the the the major issues that we see affecting these, you know, relationships. We we go into marriage with this, I don't know, I don't even know where we get these expectations from. You know, uh you mentioned the movies earlier, and I know Hollywood play a uh a big role in our misconception about what relationships, you know, need to be. Um, you know, but AD, going back to what you said about um, you know, the husband having that um that responsibility of leadership, having that responsibility of the vision. Because when we say um, when we when we're telling women or when we asking women to submit, we are literally saying, you're coming under the mission of. And so, bro, if you don't have a mission, what is she subbing to? What is she coming under? You know, and so the the the the um the main issue that I have with women doing that is they realize that the guy doesn't have a mission. They recognize that there's no vision there, and yet they said, you know what? I got it, dude. I got it. We're still gonna get together, but I got it. Uh-huh. No, do don't do it to yourself because you're gonna be, you know, when okay, you ever try to walk a dog that doesn't want to be walked and you're just dragging them along and their back leg just kind of dragged? That's that's the that's a picture in my mind when you have a man that doesn't have a vision for his family, his relationship, or even himself. Because I always say, even if my husband and I never got married, he would have still been successful. I mean, I believe he's further along because we became a team, but he would have still been okay because he had a vision for his life, whether or not I showed up. You know, and it's so important that we each are coming into the relationship with some idea of where we want to be in the next five, 10, 15 years or whatever that looks like.
SPEAKER_00You know, I I would say a lot of these guys do have a vision. It's just not like women have relationship goals, right? For the man, the relationship is the goal. That's it. I just want the woman, period. And then they're also really nice guys. So they think, oh, I want to make her happy.
SPEAKER_03And can't do that.
SPEAKER_00Right. They they they don't realize that like the goal is to have your career path, your idea of what you want to build, and then say, hey, babe, here's what I'm building. I would love for you to help me.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Instead, they go into the relationship, like, wow, I finally got a wife. All right, babe, what do you want to do? So that's the issue. Like, they just want the relationship. They don't have a plan for themselves that they are including her in.
SPEAKER_03Okay, that is so well said. Because I've never heard it put that way before. I mean, I agree with you. I've never really heard it put in those words. I the relationship is the goal. So once they get married, they feel like that's the that's the arrival. That's that's it.
SPEAKER_00Not even not even really that. No, no, no, no. So for a man, and and women don't know this, they don't appreciate this, because why would they? Sex is really hard to come by as a man. Consistent sex, oh my goodness, that's even harder. So the goal for a lot of men is just to have a woman who he can consistently get his desires met through, right? And then now that doesn't even include marriage. That doesn't even, that's just I have a girlfriend, I have a woman, right? Marriage usually comes from the woman. Like, hey, what are we doing? Where are we going? Yeah. Where are you taking me? When are you gonna propose to me? My time clock is because she has goals, right?
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00And there's nothing wrong with her having goals, but I tell a lot of my clients, wanting is free. She wants a lot of things, giving is costly, right? So you can give her what she wants, but it needs to be aligned with what you genuinely want to do and what you want to give her. Because I've seen, and I've even been in relationships in the past where like the woman will give an ultimatum. Like, hey, you know, um, what's the word I'm looking for? Promote me or I'm out of here. Make me your girlfriend or I'm gone. Marry me or I'm gone. Right now, my wife never did that. So changes or I'm out of here. Yeah, yeah. And so now you're uh the guy commits, but he's doing it out of fear. Like she started the relationship off bullying him. So of course it's never gonna go well.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Wow. So to that young couple, going back to that, going back to the person listening to this podcast, and felt like, okay, um it's been, you know, two years. The honeymoon feels like it's over. I I don't know. I don't know if I made the right decision because I now feel like I'm being bullied into growing or I'm being bullied into putting in for that promotion or going back to school when I don't want to do any of those things. So help help that brother out right now.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So the first thing you have to know, like this is the well, I'm gonna start from where you hopefully you pick the right woman, right? When it comes to marriage. The only key because marriage is hard enough by itself, yeah, right, without picking the wrong person. So hopefully he picked the kind of woman where she's just like, hey, you ain't even gotta marry me. I just want to spend time with you. Hopefully that's the kind of woman that you picked. So that way marriage is the icing on top because the relationship itself is the cake, if that makes sense. Hopefully you pick that. If you didn't pick that, well then there's nothing you can do. You're screwed. You might just want to start backtracking now, in my opinion. Um, let's say you did pick the, or and let's say you didn't pick the right person. The this the first step after that is still the same. It's start grabbing your balls and saying no. No, I'm not going to that function with your family. No, we're not buying that. No, we're not taking that vacation. No, no, no. It is the it's it's it's backwards, but it's I promise you, it is the sexiest word in a woman's dictionary. No. Okay. And it's not even the word, it's the having the boss to say no and then not let her emotions move you off of your square, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_03Isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Say it again.
SPEAKER_03That's leadership, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00I guess you could call it it's a part of leadership. It's a part of leadership, but I tell men that like the the thing that makes a relationship great is the same thing that makes it really, really, really scary. Right? It's liking a woman so much that you're willing to do anything for her, right? And the problem with that becomes when you're willing to do anything, even things you don't want to do. And then you keep doing that, you fear her leaving, or you fear the brunt of her emotions. So now you don't say no. And now because you don't say no, she's thinking in her head, like, why can't he stand up to me? If he can't stand up to little old me, then he definitely can't protect me. Now she feels unsafe. Now all kinds of other problems come, right? So that is step one is say no, let her be upset, give her a hug, give her a kiss, tell her to go sit down somewhere. Like that's number one. If you can do that, everything else becomes like 90% easier, right? So that's what I would say. Like, start with saying no. Um, also go to my YouTube channel, AD the Kingmaker. There's a lot of videos there that are going to help you, but you you have to learn, or what I had to learn, is that if you say yes too often, in the present moment, she will jump for joy, yes. But over time, she will resent you, she will not respect you, and she will not like you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And if you say no, in the present moment, she's going to be upset, she's going to be fussy, but she's going to respect you, admire you, and like you long term. So you kind of just have to know that and move accordingly. Do that which you genuinely want to do, and don't let her bully you because it it doesn't serve you. And I don't, and I don't think that the women even know that they're, I don't even think they're consciously doing it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00They don't know any better. So that's that's really the essence of what it is that I teach my clients.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've I remember being told no a couple of times. It's been a few times. See, it's been a few times.
SPEAKER_01It's memorable.
SPEAKER_03It's in her mind. Yeah, it it is. Um, you know, you buy stuff and he had you take it back.
SPEAKER_00Because he was looking out for your best interest. You were doing what you felt good, but it wasn't best for you.
SPEAKER_03Like you said, in the moment, no, it doesn't feel good. I wanted that dress. I wanted that shoes or bag or whatever it was. I think it was a dress. And I remember and see, listen to the way my husband says no. Do you think because I even remember the question? I remember how you worded it. And it's been it's been years. Do you think that is the best use of our finances right now?
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna steal that one. I like that.
SPEAKER_03I like that. Um I and I couldn't even, I couldn't even lie and say, yeah, I really believe it is. No. You couldn't even convince yourself of that lie, huh? I couldn't even, I couldn't even. But here's the point with that though. Um, once he reminded me of what the financial goals of our family was, right? Because he got the vision, he has this vision tattooed across his head. So basically, any actions, any behaviors that comes or gets in the way of that vision, he's able to recognize it and say, okay, no, we gotta pull back. We gotta, we can't do that, we can't go after that, or whatever, you know, whatever the case is. And so, yeah, I remember taking the item back to the store. Like, dang on it, you know, but I'm the one that wanted to be married, so let me shut up and go take it back to the store. But you know, we we have the tendency to think that um, you know, well, you know, um, I, you know, my husband can't tell me what to do, or you know, my my spouse can't can order me around. And I think we're kind of looking at that in the wrong through the wrong lens. You know, we I think we we miss out on um, you know, what our roles are, what that, you know, who we are as individuals, what we're supposed to be contributing to the marriage, what that looks like, what marriage identity actually looks like. And we get caught up in what somebody else said on whether it's social media or whoever, whatever unhealthy relationship that we're looking at, you know, knowing that whatever they're doing won't work in our marriage, but we're trying to implement those same things. And so it those kind of things will lead your marriage off the cliff, you know, not going after the things that works for you. And so, yeah, definitely, definitely get that. Been there, done that, didn't feel good, but I respect my husband so much after that, knowing that, oh, he told me no. Okay. I mean, he knows how to lead, he knows how to be in charge because I I mean I know how to stand up for myself, to be, to be completely honest. My husband doesn't come to, he doesn't always come to my defense because he knows that I have enough, I have enough personality to, you know, to defend myself. I I don't have to, I don't need necessarily need that physical, um, you know, that physical uh, what do you call it, you know, pushback or whatever. But um there's moments when I was like, yep, he's my man. He leading, you know. So I I definitely get that. So um one other question, well, a couple other questions. How much time do we? Oh my goodness. Okay, we're almost out of time, but I'm gonna ask you this one. I want to always leave the audience with um, you know, with something practical that they can implement into their life that they can take away. And so I want to ask you for either one of you, um, one practical tool or habit that helps strengthen your relationship when things felt really hard. You know, those moments where you're like, Lord, I think I made a mistake. Lord, I don't know if I can do this. Because you're laughing at. Listen, because I know we choose each other every single day. So what it, you know, see if you can share, you know, that one tactical tool.
SPEAKER_00We'd rather have a conversation after this podcast over. Um, I I think I said this before. This is something I I came up with, but it just seems to be true from my experience. There is no safer place physically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally for a woman than the chest of her man. So, like literally, having a conversation, let her lay on your chest, let her get it all out, is probably not going to be factually true. In fact, it's not going to be factually true. It's going to be how she feels about something. And then you just kind of let her get it out, and then like every it kind of like it's like hitting a reset button. So that is the most practical thing that you can do. I give this advice to couples all the time. I don't know how often they implement it, but if you if your wife is ever feeling upset or you're feeling upset, go in the bed or go in the couch, skin to skin, let her lay on your chest, then have the conversation. Because it just it's harder to argue that way. And there's a bunch of you can go look up the scientific literature on this. Like it slows their heart rate, it um releases anxiety, it does a whole bunch of stuff, and it just makes for a very um nurturing conversation.
SPEAKER_04Courtney, would you agree? Yes.
SPEAKER_03I do, I I agree as well. Um because one of what I teach couples is the even if you can't get that um even if you can't get access to its chest right now, at least touch whole hands. Because it there's something about that skin, like you said, about that skin to skin contact that just calms the nerve or you know, the entire nervous system for that matter. Um But I what I do know is a lot of times when you're in the thick of it, I don't want to be touched. I don't want you touching me to talk to me. Because as a matter of fact, I'm trying to find something to throw at you. So how do you how do you advise them in that moment? I'm reaching for that thermos or that shoe to throw, but you're telling me I need to touch what? Okay, hell yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, that's that's a great question. That's a great question. So here's what I say. It's gonna sound counterintuitive. I don't think men and women were meant to live together or spend this much time together. It's so hard. We couldn't have been, right? So feel free to feel, I know, I know, I know it sounds crazy. They probably you probably talk to her too much. So feel free to just ignore her most of the day. I know this sounds crazy, and just let her be upset because guess what? She's gotta come to bed at night anyway. She's gotta come to bed at night anyway. So you just be in there, laying in bed with your shirt off, like, hey, come here. Because let's be real, like I think it's a lot of times it's our ego. And and to another point, sometimes like you need to leave, or I'll speak for me. I need to be left alone. Don't touch me. I don't want to be touched right now. I want to process my emotions, and then once I process them, I'll come and find you. Right? Um, but outside of that, yeah, just go into bed, just be there. She's gotta come to bed anyway. And it's really her ego, or I don't I don't know what else to say, but it's like that's like the stubbornness in it. Like I'll tell my daughter to do something, and she'll say no. And she will, she's just being stubborn, she wants to do it. Right. So she, and this is a man and a woman thing. A lot of times we're just being stubborn, we're hurt, we're upset, and so that's why we are rejecting intimacy or closeness. But again, she gotta come to bed anyway. So hey, I'll be here. You know, you just grab her and you pull it to your show. You just you just make her. And then I and then it leads to good things. I'll just leave it at that. I'll keep it peachy. It leads to really, really good things.
SPEAKER_04Courtney, what was that?
SPEAKER_00Nothing. It's never not worked for me.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, there they are times when yeah, you I I think for the most part, um I think we you know, I I and I guess it's um it's mostly true, I think. But we at the end of the day, we all want to be heard. We all want to be heard. We we want to be able to have that safe um space, place, environment, whatever you want to call it, to be able to just let our hair down, just vent however we need to vent, not necessarily get a fix, but to process whatever that is. Yeah, of course, as women, we have, we all know this. We have way more words than than the men have, but at the same time, we do want that space where we can just like, hey, this is what's going on, this is what's going on. I'll sit there and tell my husband an entire story about my, you know, an encounter that I had that day. And they did this and they said this, and would you believe? And he's like, wow, that's crazy. And I'm no, he don't care at all.
SPEAKER_00He doesn't care at all, at all.
SPEAKER_03No, what I think is what I do know is he may not care about what I was talking about, but he cared enough about me to let me be heard. And that's important, you know, and so with having that repetition of creating space for me to be heard, it just creates that uh that environment of safety. So over and over and over, you know, again, over the years, you know, you feel more and more safe, you feel more and more um, you know, heard, more and more um trusted, you know, in those in those moments. And so over time, uh so I would say to the to that young couple, hang in there, you know, hang in there and create those spaces for your partner to be hurt.
SPEAKER_00Interesting. That sounds hard to do. Hang in there. That doesn't even sound enjoyable. Can I can I give a, can I, can I give a different perspective?
SPEAKER_03I mean, when you say, okay, you can, but when I say hang in there, it doesn't mean just hang in there and do nothing. You know what I mean? Just continue the the you know, those practices because you drop some really good points on what they can implement over time. You know, yet you may not always feel like holding her and pulling her in close, but the more you do that, it's practice. That is yeah, that's the hanging in there that um, you know, you're saying you're saying be consistent. Yeah, exactly. Don't just don't just hang in there passively. My gosh, no.
SPEAKER_00Just I was thinking just in general, whenever hang in there is usually a response when someone is dealing with something really, really, really, really difficult, and the person doesn't know what else to say responds back. Just hang in there. And so that's where I was coming from. Yeah. I say you my my this is just for everything across the board in life for me. If it's not fun, it's not for me. Right. And I think that we can set the bar higher than just being miserable for a very long time. Yeah. To say that you've been married for 45 years, right? Exactly. I would say try to have a way, try to find a way to have fun with it. Another thing you can do if she's very upset, and you know, you want intimacy and maybe she doesn't, just start making jokes. Maybe start making fun of her. Like, hey, uh, you know, when you're upset, your feet stink. So, you know, just start saying things. Get a laugh, crack a smile, and then it's like, oh, okay, now you smile. You want to hug me, huh? You it's okay. Give her kisses. Like, almost like treat her, it sounds crazy. Treat her like her feelings don't matter for the moment because she wants love.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like they always want love, right? So like give it to her, help have her smile first, and then like kind of break the ice with that. But just on your chest, I promise, and then eventually it becomes to the point where she's like, when are you gonna let me lay on your chest again? Like she'll start coming to you for it, right? So, yeah.
SPEAKER_03But I Courtney made a point earlier that um, you know, humor plays such a big role in you guys' relationship dynamic. And I agree, you know, we should um humor needs to be a part, it needs to be one of those to where we talk about, hey, you know, one practical tool, that would be another practical tool. You know, and we don't mean um, we definitely don't mean making fun of her to where it hurts her feelings, especially in public or anything like that. That is not what we're talking about. You know, we're talking about the, you know, having humor in a sense that, you know, we're not taking each other so seriously. We know how to break down those walls and those, you know, those heart feelings or what have you. So um, last question. If you could sit across from a couple in their first five to ten years, what would you tell them to focus on first? Because there's so much going on when you first get married. So, what would you say, hey, if you don't look at anything else, start here?
SPEAKER_00I would say to the husband, love yourself, respect yourself, know what you want, and find a fun, cheerful, enjoyable way to include her and what that is. And when you don't know what else to do, when she's upset or she's moody, give her a hug, give her a kiss, tell her go sit down. That's that's my go-to.
SPEAKER_04So tell her go sit down like a two-year-old. Courtney, what would you tell 'em? Or at least what would you tell them why?
SPEAKER_02Only because I struggle with this. Um let let your let your man lead. Show him that you trust him, um, allow him to take care of you, the family, um, and just just follow him.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yep. Allow him to lead. And I would because I would say to that, if you are unable to let your husband lead, what are you doing?
SPEAKER_04Why did you marry him in the first place?
SPEAKER_01Because she wanted a girlfriend. That's what they want. They want girlfriends. But that's not no, that that can't be it.
SPEAKER_03That cannot be it. That cannot be it. So we leave with for the husband, start with your own self-growth. Start with, you know, pouring into yourself, knowing where you're going, knowing what you're you're called to do, knowing what your vision is, you know, for your life, for the marriage, for our family, if, you know, that's the um, you know, the next step for you. And for the woman, allow your husband to lead. And so with that, we end here. Thank you both so very much for sitting down with me on the state of our union and the fight to keep it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for having us. Of course.