Developing Marriage Resilience | William and Ebonie Scarborough

In this heartfelt interview, William and Ebonie Scarborough share their 21-year marriage journey, highlighting the importance of commitment, communication, and faith through life's challenges. They shared some practical insights into navigating health crises, maintaining love, and building a resilient partnership - all the while raising a family.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 1:02

I'm always excited to sit down with um, you know, our married couples and have these amazing conversations. So again, I'm Karen Williams. I am the host of The State of Our Union and the Fight to Keep It. And so obviously, I'm gonna bring on people that are fighting for their union. This evening, I have William and Ebony Scarborough joining us all the way from Maryland. And I always say all the way because I'm way out here in Vegas. It's still sunny out here. You know, it's 80-something degrees outside, and it's 30 out there. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Yeah, like 30 something.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

They're still trying to get past the snow banks and whatever else to get in their front door. So it's always just um exciting to um, you know, to sit out with with amazing couples and you know, just talk about marriage and some of the the, you know, some people call that the highs and the lows. And of course, it does have high and lows, but I like to call it the wins, the joys of marriage, and the challenging seasons of marriage. And so again, we're just gonna dive right into our conversation. Um, so tell tell our audience a little bit about you guys. Um, you know, how long you've been married, the kids, all the things. You good.

unknown 2:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:28

So I love how you guys always look at each other. So uh again, we are Ebony and William Scarborough. We have been married for 21 years. Um, we got married very young. Everybody's like, oh, y'all been married 21 years? Yes. So that means we got married real young. I was 18. William was 20. Um, we were 20 when we first got married. Um, and we have four beautiful children together. Um, our oldest is 18. I think we have 15, 13, and 7. 14 and 7. Um, so yeah. So we have four children, and yeah, we just love life. So I am a relationship coach. Well, we both are relationship coaches. I also teach on self-care. I help moms because this mom journey is not for the week. So um, I have moms, and we just love building relationships with people all over. Anything you want to add?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Well, I mean, you covered it all. Uh, I guess the other thing I mean I would add is, you know, it's it's been great. And uh I also have a podcast of my own, Know Who I Know. Um, where we dive into uh talking about the community that we live in, all the wonderful people in our community. But um I just enjoy this lady here. She's great at what she does, and I just I'm in awe at everything she does.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Yeah, you and you you allow her to step into her God-given call in, and that is amazing. Um don't forget to sh, you know, to uh share the information with me. We'll add it in the show notes so people can jump onto you guys' podcast as well, and you know, get the things that they need to step into the call of God on their life as well. Um, one of the things that I um, you know, I kind of wanted to start out with was uh you shared in the the show application one of the challenges that you had um, you know, that you guys faced. And, you know, you said one is for it was health-related um situation. And it also um it it brought out of you guys your weaknesses, but also the level of commitment that you had to build each other.

SPEAKER_04 4:58

One of our major challenges is when um you know I got sick and twice I've had uh pulmonary embolisms, blood clots in my lungs. Now the first one our youngest daughter was only eight months old. Um so this was 18 years ago, because she's 18 now, almost 19. So I in in that moment, you know, I think we take our vows in sickness and in health. We say it, you know, we rehearse it, but we really don't know what that looks like until if it happens. Yeah, but in that moment, I'm talking coming home on oxygen. I was 21, 22, coming home for like six to eight weeks on an oxygen tank, um, and needing help to bathe myself, needing help to maneuver, going different pla you know, going different places, and having a newborn. So I feel like that moment was the moment I can say for me, I knew what kind of man I had. I knew like I knew silly. I knew you're so silly.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

I can't even be saying I'm sorry, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 6:22

No, you won't. But I knew what kind of man I had. I knew that this relationship was I mean this was this was the real deal. I knew this was this was not um just you know something to look good on social media. Well, we really didn't have social media back then, but you know, this was not for looks. Right. This was the real deal. And I knew what kind of man I had that was not just telling me he was gonna be there for me, that was not just um, you know, pretending, but no, he was in it for the long haul. When you have a spouse that cannot bathe themselves, when you have a spouse that needs help getting up and out of the bed, when you have a spouse, like this was not, you know, and not only for it to happen once, but for it to happen twice, you know. Uh 10 years later.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

I think it was.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

Yeah, 10 years later, we I had the second episode. Um, again, I already knew without a shadow of a doubt, my man is gonna be here for me. Um, he's gonna do whatever needs to be done to take care of not just me, but take care of the family. He's gonna hold down the fort. And that to me was a security that I didn't know that I needed, if that makes sense. Um at a young getting married that young. It was a level of security that I didn't know that I needed. Yeah, you know, it wasn't a fleeting type of love, it was it was the real deal.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

It was the real deal. And even as you as you are telling your story, I'm going back to thinking, you said this happened like right in the beginning of the marriage, like in the the early stages. So in it it's like those moments are the what we call the honeymoon stage. Like, girl, you're not supposed to be having those kind of things in the honeymoon stage. Like, how are you diving into major challenges in that season? Because the moment I, you know, you, you know, of course, they they they the um what I want to call those marriages now, the ones that's not built on solid ground. When those relationships have challenges, the moment that shows up, we want to just break. We're like, okay, I didn't sign up for all of this, I signed up for the social media look, I signed up to travel, I signed up for YouTube buy me the nice bag, and this part was not part of the equation, you know. So, like right out the right off the bat, that challenge showed up. And you know, you now you're talking about a sickness, you're talking about an illness. William, tell me what was happening for you, because that was a moment of uncertainty. Where did you go for your support, for your help?

SPEAKER_00 9:24

When it comes with me, when it comes to love, when I say I love you, I mean it. Um when I think I think the thing really helped us was even before we got married, we had a bond before then. And as we bonded, it was like I really love heart, you know, and when we were going through that stage, like I knew, okay, I took my vows seriously. So I knew, like, okay, it's sick, I gotta, you know, I don't know how to take care of her, but I'm gonna try my best. You know, I Yeah, I have people in my community, like my mother, yeah, she took my children. She's gonna step up to the challenge time period. And um, like I did everything that I could, you know, and even what I didn't think I could, I still end up doing. But it was just the the idea that I she was uh this might sound weird, but she's mine.

SPEAKER_03 10:15

Responsibility.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yeah, she's my responsibility, and it's like I gotta make sure she's good because this, you know, I like that's all I could think about was like she's my responsibility, and I gotta make sure I do this because I love her. Not just because of any other reason other than the fact that I just love her, and this is this is my personal reason. So it was and like I said, and I had people that I talked to, people that helped me through that in times when I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Yeah, so you had a a solid uh solid support system. And I know I talk about that a lot in my uh like me in my premarital work with couples that um you you gotta acknowledge the the um the way that your family of origin show up for you. You have to have that um you know that support. And if you have an unhealthy family of origin, you need to find that support because you need it. You're not you're not an island, you know. Even as a married couple, yes, you you have your your um you know, you have your responsibilities, you know what you're supposed to be doing with, you know, for and with each other. Um you want to have certain set boundaries, obviously, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about showing up in the way that you need your family of origin to show up. And that's amazing that you were, you know, able to tap into that um even in those uh challenging times. And as you know, this this podcast is really focused on um is really for that couple that is in that three-year, five-year area of marriage where the honeymoon stage is over. Who in the world is this person? You feel like you're married to the wrong individual because William could have very well said that. I didn't marry a woman that's gonna be sick on me. I didn't sign up for all of this. I signed up, and you know, so it your challenge, you know, for anybody in the audience, your challenge may not be um health-wise. It could be, you know, whatever it is. Just understand that you can get past this, you know, because you guys have been married 21 years. You know, like 21 years, like you, like, dude, you stick around. Ebony, you know, in that um in the midst of that, you understood who you had. You know, you understood the, you know, the your your uh your person. You knew in those moments that that was your person. You could see the love, you could feel the love. And you know, even in um, even in Williams um, you know, uncertainty, he's like, okay, I don't know how to do this, but I'm gonna go figure it out. I'm gonna go, you know, not just sit there like, well, I don't know what to do. Even if you don't know what to do, you're gonna go call your mama. So to kind of follow up with that is, you know, so what would you guys say to that one couple right now that's having that super challenging time? Listen, we got married, uh, she's doing that, he's doing this, and you know, I'm I'm just done. I gotta have married the wrong person at once.

SPEAKER_04 13:30

Like, and one of the things that I've learned, and that is an old song that we used to sing, trouble does not last always. So even if you know you are going through a rough season, understand that it is just that it is a season. You can get through that if you put in the work, you show up for your spouse, and you show up for yourself. So, you know, like we talked about show up for yourself and and show up for your spouse, and that can be so broad. We we can talk about grief, we can talk about financial distress, we can talk about like so many challenges can arise, and in those first couple of years, it's it's hard because you're just getting to know each other and not just be on the surface. So one of the things that I wish that someone would have told me um in those those years is that marriages and seasons, and you won't you this season won't be forever. And when you think of it like that, it's like okay, if we can get through it, if we can grow through it, if we can continue to lean and depend on each other, we can make it. We can make it.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

It's a season. Absolutely. Yeah, and I like how you know you emphasize that season because as we know, you know, you know, I was gonna say we're dealing with winter right now.

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Well, y'all doing winter right now, but the rest of us out here on the west, we don't know what that is. I'm like, how is it that we have 82 degrees in March?

SPEAKER_01 15:11

But anyway, that's another podcast. But the same way with the natural seasons, you know, in the winter, you you, you know, you kind of hunker down. And, you know, that's really when, you know, you you really get into the the uh what I said, the nitty-gritty. Those are the challenging times. And it's those seasons that really make you and prepare you for the spring. It's what prepares you for the summer months, you know. Um, you think about the you know, the people that work out, you know, they're in the gym in the winter months, you know, and they, you know, bus out in the spring with their muscles or whatever else. But you can't have those winning seasons without those difficult seasons.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

We see the the marriages on the movies, and nowadays we see the marriages on Instagram, we see the marriages on all these things. And the truth is that's just screenshots, and we fall in love with screenshots thinking that that's the reality. And the truth is when you get into it, like you said, when you get into nitty-gritty, you have to really remember and remind yourself why you fell in love with this person. What is it about this person that actually attracted you to them? And once you get that, I think like in those times, those were the things that we actually bunkered down on, and it kind of helped us to focus so that when things got tough, we weren't so easily to fall apart. We would be like, Okay, we gotta make this work. No matter how stubborn, I have to make this work because it's not it's unrealistic, you know. I mean, I think that sometimes people have those expectations, and then you get married, and then it's like, well, you were supposed to be this or you were supposed to be that, but you gotta, I think when you remind yourself consistently of what it is you fell in love with, those are the things you really need to focus on.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Absolutely, absolutely. And um, at the beginning of our conversation, you said something that I want to refer back to. You said you guys had a bond before you even got married. And I think a lot of people are neglecting that premarital work, you know, that what happens before, you know, because you see certain things that you're not okay with and you still allow that to, oh, that's not gonna be so bad. Well, after all of the, as you know, all of the oxytocin and the, you know, the dopamine and all of that stuff wears off, that bad habit is still there. You know, that thing that you, you know, again, the re unrealistic expectations, that person has not given you any evidence that they're capable of showing up in that way that you want them to show up. There's no evidence of that. They never showed you any evidence of that. And here you are trying to get blood from a turnip. Well, the brother is still a turnip, the sister is still a turnip. And it it's to me, it's you know, we we talk ourselves into marriage sometimes, you know. And I and I I get it. You are at the place now where, okay, I am yes, I did that, but now I'm married. There was still, like you said, there was still something that attracted you to this person. You have to go back to the drawing board, go back to what you fell in love with, you know, whether it's because of the laugh, the way he laughed, the way she laughed, the way she showed up, the way she, you know, he or she showed up in certain aspects, whatever those are, you have to go back and revisit those things. And I think a lot of um, I think a lot of couples tend to forget that once the honeymoon stage is over, and I recognize that it is um that first, I say two to seven years, that early period, I think a lot of us are forgetting that that is the real power struggle season where I know I'm married to you, but I still want to hold on to a piece of who I am. I'm still, you know, here's this person telling me, oh, I don't want you to go here. I don't want you to have those friends. And wait a minute, you're trying to now redefine me and hold on, what is happening? You know? And you know, once you and I are able to say, um, I know who God has created me to be, I know who He has created you to be, we're now together. How can we create this new thing that never existed before? You know, because the way Rob and I was able to, you know, to step into that um, you know, what is that um that comfortable season was understand that Karen is Karen, Rob is Rob, and the marriage is another thing. God is just allowing us to step into it and participate. That's it. You know, because if I'm coming, you know, one of my pastor back in back in Maryland used to say, um, we stro, you know, when God told us that, you know, the two become one flesh, we over here fighting about which flesh it's gonna be. And it was and it was never neither one of our flesh. You know, God is trying to build something, you know, completely uh different while at the same time allowing us to participate in it, allowing us to step into it. And so, girl, it was never about us in the first place. It had always been about Jesus showing us how the relationship between him and the church look.

SPEAKER_04 20:43

That's it, you know, um, about um how did people get to this point of what you know marriage looked like? That's one of the things that I feel like has helped me throughout the years of being comfortable with number one, how the word of God defines marriage, and number two, how it shows up for us, right? So I no longer look at other couples and be like, oh, now in my early years, I would look at other couples like, oh, I want to be like that, I want the big house, I want the this, and I and I'm not to say that God was not to give us those things, but my motive for looking at those couples were like, Oh, I want my husband to treat me this way. I this person, their spouse opens the door for them, or this spouse, you know, does this and their husband does this, and you can get so focused on what you see from other people that you lose sight of what God has called your marriage to be. So that that and also that person's spouse might open the door for them, but might neglect them when they are sick. They might open the door for them, but I mean at home, don't even talk to them. So when they pull up the other lady, it's all a show. And not to say everybody's like that, but the point that I'm making is focus on and get comfortable with your use. Exactly. So William likes to cook these past couple of years. He he's taken over dinner. We don't do a bunch of gender roles. If he likes to cook, I'll let him cook. Um, he doesn't look at me and come home every day and say, What's for dinner? I don't know. I'm still working. So, you know, but it works for us. You know what I mean? And I think sometimes that when we get comfortable with what works for us, as long as it's in the um the boundaries of the word of God. Yes, as long it works for us, it works for us. And I think that's one of the major things that I would tell people in these early years of marriage, focus on your own what works for you guys. It doesn't matter if it doesn't work for anybody else.

SPEAKER_01 22:51

As you were talking about the the the gender roles and that kind of stuff, yeah, we we you know, we don't sign up for all of that either. But when I um one of the things I notice is when I'm around my Brother-in-law and sister, um, and just watch how watch their dynamic. And I already know that none of that works for me. Right. None of that works for me. You know, no, I don't, I don't need you to open doors. Great if Rob opened the door. That's okay. I I I won't tell him not to, but I don't I don't need that. You know, I don't need him to drive me anywhere, but that's my sister's life, that's what she enjoys. You know, he cooks. Now, now I tell you this. If he if Rob could cook, the man would be sent from heaven with angel wings. Because he's amazing in every other way. But when it comes to the kitchen, boy, go sit down. I got it. But I tell you this, he's gonna still make sure that we eat because he does the grocery shopping. And if push comes to shove and I say, I don't feel like cooking, all right, let's go out to eat. Okay. You know, it's not, it's you know, again, looking at the things that work for your relationship, you know, not comparing, because comparison will always be the thief of joy. It always will be, you know, and I remember even when we bought our first home in Bryan's Road, Maryland, 1998. We buy our house, and I love my little house, 1,300 square foot, enjoying my house until I went to the other girl's house, you know, our other friend's house. I'm like, babe, did you see they got a whole basement? They got six bedrooms. I came back to my house like I don't like my house no more.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

And I'm going, I don't know what you're saying.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

Everything.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

He's looking at me like, girl, if you're not gonna sit down somewhere, this was this light. It took everything we had to walk up in this house, close on this house, the miracles that God worked for us to even be in that house. You know, side note, we were closing on the house, and it was during the time there was a hurricane coming in. You know, Maryland knows we get hurricanes often, but that year and it was 1998, and here we are with a hurricane. And we couldn't get homeowners' insurance. And I got down on my knees and I said, God, if we don't get this house, we're gonna be homeless in two days. So I need you to take to speak to that storm and let it die in the Atlantic. We got up the next morning, and the exact words on CNN were the hurricane died in the Atlantic. Look at God. And I'm over here comparing my house, my miracle house, to I didn't know, mind you, later on we learned that there was a lot of people that had these big homes that had interests only, that lost their home. And God gave us our house. It was a God-given gift, you know, and you know, you take, I guess you take um moments like that, and we God, we we we we gotta cherish those moments. We gotta, that is what our marriage is built on. Those are the moments that Rob and I can look back after 33 years and say, dude, we did that. Had it not been for God, had you know, God showed up for us. We we you know, we stepped very quick faith, not knowing what it was gonna look like, not doing the comparison. Well, I did a little comparison. Yeah, so it it is, it's um it's just a reminder of um, you know, again, the importance of looking back to what God has called you as a couple to do and knowing that, hey, is anything else that you, you know, anything else that we're doing that doesn't align with what God has called us as a couple to do, that's when you know you and I know how we gotta pause. What is this that we are arguing over? What is this that doesn't feel good? What is this that's causing this rift between us? And see, when you and I are able to say, um, the problem is the problem. It's you and I against the problem. It is you and your partner against that problem. Do not judge your partner based on that problem, you know, because you know the enemy will quickly redirect and make your partner the face of that problem. You know, yeah. So um let's I'm loving this conversation. I wish we could hang out all day. Oh my gosh. So here's another question for you guys. When it comes to money, communication, intimacy, and we touched on expectations a little bit. What area stretched you most early on, and then why? Because we talk about the health challenge.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

We spoke two different languages. Um mine was silent, and we will talk about it, but then some things we just kind of let go. You don't deal with it, you raise it all to the side. Where her language was, no, we're gonna talk about it. Not only we're gonna talk about it, but we're gonna talk about it now, and then when it comes back to my mind, we're gonna talk about it again and then again and again, and it was like, oh yes. So it because the thing was like I I grew up, you know, just we didn't deal with problems. We just kind of you know brushed it off to the side and moved on. Where with her, like she came in a house where you confront everything, you can front it, you deal with it. You know what I mean? So it was like that was that was a thing because as it progressed, yes, I went deeper into my hole and she came out more. So it was one of those things where it was a challenge, and then we got to a place where I would start speaking my mind, but it was throwing jabs more than it was speaking my mind. I mean, and then when it really became, you know, confrontational and different things like that. So I really feel like that was one of the things that was a, you know, for us.

SPEAKER_03 29:00

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 29:02

Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of um, as you are describing that, there's a lot of younger couples that I have conversation with where that is the major problem for them. They they do stay silent. Because I I am great. The silent treatment was my everything language. I don't want to deal with it, and I'll be shut down for three full days, right? Three full days. I'm out, checking out, don't talk to me, you know. And I find that there's a you know, younger couples do that. And and not just younger couples, you know, I'm not just picking on the young couples, but you know, you they just not having the tools to have, you know, good communication or having the language to be able to communicate the things that they need or whatever it is that they want to say to the other person without stepping into anger and resentment. Because that's what's on the other side of that silence is resentment. You know? So, so Ebony, you tell me when when William started shutting down, going to silent treatment.

SPEAKER_04 30:07

Well, saying for I won't say, I'll say for a couple of years. I won't just say in the beginning. For a couple of years, definitely went on like, no, we're we're gonna talk. I came from a talking family. Oh, we got right there. And that's how I wanted to, but and on the flip side, me wanting to talk was really me wanting to be right. It wasn't and this had to be revealed, as the Bible says, flesh and blood did not reveal this. You know, it was what a revelation. Me actually wanting to talk was me wanting to be right, and I had to sit with myself and God and like that was revelation from heaven. What is happening here? And I'm like, okay, yeah, I I really want it to be right. So I pushed him and pushed him and pushed him to talk. I had to learn that he needed space to process. We do not, as he said, speak the same language. We don't. I am like, let's talk about it. He's like, okay, let me think about what I'm gonna say, let me think about um the word, like you said, getting the language to how I'm feeling. Um, let me so I had to realize that him sometimes, not every time, but sometimes him being silent had nothing to do with like a personal attack against me. He was processing. And sometimes you gotta remove yourself from like making it personal because it's not personal sometimes, you know. And once I learned to respect you know, the fact that he needed to process things, it created a safe, safer environment. So when you have a spouse that is not used to talking, that is not used to speaking up for himself, that is not used to communicating how they feel, you have to create a safe space for them to be able to do so. And again, the Holy Spirit had to deal with me. I also read The Power of a Praying Wife. That was so the Holy Spirit and the power of a praying wife through that book really had thank you. Um, and I have read it several times throughout the duration. So they really had to like deal with me like Ebony, you gotta create a safe environment for him. And now he talks all the time, but you know, he has no problem speaking up. But it was not always like that. So, you know, I think for us to meet in the middle, there had to be a had to be a give and take. I had to learn to be quiet sometimes, not because I'm not vocal, but because too much talking doesn't give him space to say anything. Um, and then he had to learn to try, like you gotta try. And when he started trying, we kind of just like met in the middle. And now I feel like we have a good flow. He talks just as much as me now.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

What? I know I I might might be close, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 33:28

I we'll put a poll out there, but I think he talks just as much as me. Um, and I love it because I remember a time it was not always like that. It's like, I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Yeah, absolutely. And the key there was um, you said you have to create a safe space for the non-talker in your relationship to be able to feel the freedom to raise any concern that they have. They because every time there's a conflict in your marriage, what the other person is really saying is, am I going to be safe enough to raise another issue? Because based on how you treat me this time, I may not raise something else again. And that was one of the things that God actually placed in me as well when uh when Rob and I were having our communication challenges, and of course, I was the one that would that was shut down. I had to remember that it was safe with him. He is my safe space. And he had to literally say the words. You are okay here. You can say whatever you need to say, you know, and for me, most of the time, it was just the lack of language, the the lack of um what do they call the the emotional bandwidth that's necessary to have a grown-up conversation and still feel okay on the other side of it, you know? Because no, I simply wasn't raised that way. My voice was not um uh my voice didn't have space. It didn't have any merit. I didn't get the chance to speak up as a child. That's just how, you know, I was raised in the generation where, you know, children are seen but not heard. And so it took me a while to come up out of that. So, girl, at 58, you can't take my voice no more. It is here to stay. I got some things to say. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna get me a whole podcast. Absolutely. And and I know that the communication thing is huge, it's huge across the board. So many couples are struggling with that. And they um, I think some people just kind of like, well, you know, we're never gonna get past that. So they just kind of leave that to the side. Um I know couples have been married 25, 30 years that are still struggling.

SPEAKER_04 35:56

And I wanted to go back to something, Karen, that you said in the beginning about the only thing you can control is yourself. So and I think we are so busy trying to control the other person, trying to make the other person be who we want them to be or who we feel like they need to be, that we don't take the mirror and say, Well, what part can I control? So I couldn't make him talk, but when he did talk, I could be quiet and not interrupt him. Right? I couldn't I can control that. So when I couldn't make him talk, but I could not throw five years worth of history back up in his face when he brought up something that he disagreed with.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

You know what I mean? So that's like I can control that.

SPEAKER_04 36:52

I could control that. So we cannot control our spouse, we cannot make them who we want them to be, but we can work on ourselves. And no matter the situation, there is something that you can do to help the situation. So, like, what can I do? And if we ask ourselves those questions, those hard questions, I think that it it the process doesn't always have to be as long as it it has been. But we gotta we gotta ask ourselves those hard questions. What part can I play? It may not be a big part, but it is a part.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

Um I agree.

SPEAKER_04 37:43

Yeah, because I'm I'm not the one I say we say to ourselves, we're not the one that's wrong.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

Yes. I I I think the challenge shows up when you want me to look at myself. No, it's easier to look at you.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

It's easier to point the fingers at you.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

I think that at some point you have to reach that point in your marriage, and then when you begin to submit, it'll show the other one, like, okay, this is how we come to a compromise and this is how we begin to deal with this thing. You know, so I Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Yes, absolutely. And I always, you know, I always push put it back on um, you know, sometimes they, you know, when the when couples are sitting in front of me, I always like, okay, husband, you may have to take the lead on this one. You might have to take the lead, you know, not saying that anyone's wrong, anyone's right, you know, whatever that looks like. But take the lead. Take the lead and watch her follow. And then sometimes I'm like, all right, girl, you know better. So you gonna might have to take the lead on this one. You know what I mean? Because like you said, a lot of times we don't wanna, we don't wanna slow down. We don't want to, you know, um give it a second and say, okay, I could be the one that's in that's wrong here. How do I take personal responsibility and show up differently, create that space that's that's needed or that's necessary for this season that we're in? Yeah, so that that's that's that's good. That's good. Um, oh my goodness, that time went by super fast. Oh my gosh. All right, one final question to kind of wrap our conversation. If you could sit across from a couple that's in their first five to ten years, tell me now, what would you tell them to focus on? And basically, what would you what would you tell them to focus on first? Because they have, you know, a litany of stuff going on. The communication is bad. We, you know, the the the money situation is bad, the all of this. I can't stand him, I can't get him to go to church. I he's she's trying to drag me to church. All of these things are happening. So, what would you say? Hey, slow down.

SPEAKER_04 40:04

I can get through anything if you learn to communicate. And communicating is not just speaking, it's I gotta talk in a way that he understands what I'm saying, that it registers with him, that he can feel what I'm saying, and vice versa. So I really feel like in those five to ten years, you're no longer newbies per se, you're kind of you know, starting to feel um more solid in your relationship, and it's not just the honeymoon phase, you are building a life together in order to do that. You are gonna have to learn to communicate, you are gonna have to learn to forgive. You're gonna have to forgive you're gonna have to learn to forgive. You're gonna have to learn to be flexible and give and take. It cannot be just your way all the time. Um, and that's one of the things that I've really had to learn is that Ebony, it does not have to, you don't always have to be right. Even if you are right, it doesn't matter that much.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

Pick your battles.

SPEAKER_04 41:43

Every battle every battle is not worth dying for on this hill. You know what I mean? Like pick your battles. Um and that that's just I don't know, that's what I would say. Those are the things that I would say to focus on because now you're in you're building a life. You're building a life that you are ready to, you know, think about forever. And these are some skills that you have to master in order to make that next phase like smooth sail. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

You took everything I was thinking. Uh I'm sitting here trying to think of something different. Everything she said. Everything she said. No, I would say one of the um one of the things she said just about everything I was thinking, but uh to add to it, I think uh I want to go back to something we said in the beginning. Um I think one of the things that she should do is focus on what made you fall in love with that person to begin with. And with her, like, because like we spoke earlier about having a bond, our bond was we came to the Lord together and we served in youth groups and we served at our local church, and watching her serve the way she served made me fall in love with her. Because I was just like, Yeah, just watch me. So I was like, dang, if she she loves the Lord like that, and she like I watched her like just go all out for him, you know what I mean? And even when even when I was trying to get her, she put me in my place and said, No, we're gonna hold this thing tough. I was like, girl, high five, give me something. Excellent.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

Then we got four kids.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

But uh, but I would say always and it's like when we went through our hard times, I remember that that girl that I fell in love with and how she served. And it was like having that in my mind always kept me in the battle. You know what I mean? Always kept my kept me, you know, I mean, kept me fighting for what I really love. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Yeah. And I mean, uh, at the heart of this podcast, the state of our union and the fight to keep it, because it is a fight to keep it. You know, it's a daily fight to keep it. Um, and as we're listening to you guys um share, we're learning a lot of the areas where you could, you got you had multiple opportunities to give up, but you chose each other every single day. You on purpose stepped in there, you set your egos aside so that you can stay together. My desire to be right did not become the focus of the relationship. You were able to look back at the bond that you formed and able to bring that bond to your relationship and say, okay, from this place, we are going to build. It was beyond a physical attraction. Yes, you like how she looked. Don't we're not fooling ourselves around here like we don't like how each other look. We're not being we're not fooling ourselves around here. I like the way she walks. I like, listen, I like the shape of her lips, the shape of her eyes, I like all of that. I love his muscles, I like his shoulders. We're not silly around here, but we know that it goes beyond that because those. Things are not going to be what carry us to the long haul. That may be what help us through the front door, but when we start lifting up those curtains and we start lifting up that carpet and we start pulling apart the drywall and we start looking, you know, in the in all of the different intricacies of marriage, you found we were all able to find something solid. And so that's what I'm hoping that everyone that's listening to this conversation be able to walk around with, uh, or walk away with, I should say. And so I want to thank you guys again for sitting down with us, telling us all of this, telling us all your business. And so um, until next time, I just want to let you know hey, this is in fact the union and the fight to keep it. William and Ebony, thank you so much again for joining us.